HAV's "playing to learn"

[fluxcore]

Well worth a read.

http://www.shoryuken.com/content.php?r=895

[[8-----D] Toots]

 

He pretty much summed up why I am sick of 4.

[Lennysaurus]

lol i love how he explains that example and why he thinks it was a bad thing to do, and then you get all these dudes commenting and totally missing the point.

Great article, and something I really need to take into account more when I play tbh.

[xpunch]

i always noob it out with an ex jet upper when im all 'flustered'. damn it, im one of those dudes that ultra for nothing lolz.

I was playing George Hu last night AfterDeathLive, we had about 20 ranked matches and i kinda realised what i was doing wrong.

My inf jump in's agaisnt his Zangief were doing me no justice, i lost twice in a row lolz, i started trying out different things..

- jump in with lk to stop lariat
- cross counter giefs cross up
- c.mp, mgp as gief lands after cross up,
- score a knockdown dash in then dash out to see what he will do, then next time dash in overhead combo or throw
- throwing out s.hp and f.hp which i just learned beats out all zangiefs pokes
- f.hp fadc throw
- dash in throw
- empty jump in (bait lariat) ultra

As i tried all these things plus more, i lost another 3 times in a row, and after learning abit about the match up i won 4 times in a row and from then on we were pretty even.

Pretty much done what the article was saying  , i could of kept jumping in at him and ultra'd or ex jet when i was under pressure etc... but i took those loses and learned heaps pretty buzzy lol

Afterwards he sent me a msg saying that he noticed that as we played i was getting better at the Dudley vs Gief matchup. Felt good coming from him  hehehe since he's one of kevin's rivals... Gief vs Gief anybody 

But yeah thats just me lol, it takes me ages to catch on to how ppl play, most good players here only need 1 or 2 rounds to figure out how the other player plays.

[Hydro]

Great article by Hav, I especially connected with the Jwong comment on blocking more.

[electric]

I think I've mentioned it before, but HAV is a really smart player... I've been playing my casuals with this mindset for a while now and I think it's really improved my game for the better - sure, I lose more, but I end up taking more stuff away than I would trying to mash EX tornado throw or mashing on EX roll whenever something gets overwhelming.

His article on blocking is also really good. Smart, smart player.

[CptMunta]

Interesting stuff,

makes me think about counter ultras and also ultras you can't combo into as well. Guess it's better to sit on the meter and see what you can come up with rather than mashing out ultra, learn your opitions.

I guess it applies even more to characters that have rock solid reversals.

[fluxcore]

Great article by Hav, I especially connected with the Jwong comment on blocking more.

"just block more... no matter how much you're blocking now, block more. Don't do anything until you've blocked enough to know what you're fighting against".

Pretty much the mother of all knowledge bombs right there.

And yeah, I actually believe the game is MORE ENJOYABLE using this article's principle rather than just doing whatever.

[zos'la]

i always noob it out with an ex jet upper when im all 'flustered'. damn it, im one of those dudes that ultra for nothing lolz.

I was playing George Hu last night AfterDeathLive, we had about 20 ranked matches and i kinda realised what i was doing wrong.

My inf jump in's agaisnt his Zangief were doing me no justice, i lost twice in a row lolz, i started trying out different things..

- jump in with lk to stop lariat
- cross counter giefs cross up
- c.mp, mgp as gief lands after cross up,
- score a knockdown dash in then dash out to see what he will do, then next time dash in overhead combo or throw
- throwing out s.hp and f.hp which i just learned beats out all zangiefs pokes
- f.hp fadc throw
- dash in throw
- empty jump in (bait lariat) ultra

As i tried all these things plus more, i lost another 3 times in a row, and after learning abit about the match up i won 4 times in a row and from then on we were pretty even.

Pretty much done what the article was saying  , i could of kept jumping in at him and ultra'd or ex jet when i was under pressure etc... but i took those loses and learned heaps pretty buzzy lol

Afterwards he sent me a msg saying that he noticed that as we played i was getting better at the Dudley vs Gief matchup. Felt good coming from him  hehehe since he's one of kevin's rivals... Gief vs Gief anybody 

But yeah thats just me lol, it takes me ages to catch on to how ppl play, most good players here only need 1 or 2 rounds to figure out how the other player plays.

AfterDeaths Gief is nowhere  near as scary as Kevins. I played him plenty on PC, both his Sagat and Gief. But its a good way to learn stuff and see what works and what not.

[electric]

It really annoys me how scrubby a lot of those comments are... they totally missed the point of the article. No wonder HAV stopped playing SF4.

[zos'la]

It really annoys me how scrubby a lot of those comments are... they totally missed the point of the article. No wonder HAV stopped playing SF4.

it personal preferrance, why would you let other peoples comments affect you and how you should play or what so ever... comments are comments they put what they want and you can't stop them.
If you post something these days on the internet, then be prepared to be commented on by different people with different perspective.
But thats no way in saying okay because of these stupid b******* I will give up this game?
its either you enjoy it or you don't,  its due to your own reasons as you choose to do so.

[Rorooze]

I really don't get the articles example at the end. I mean, it was in a RANBAT situation that he got "random" ultra'd. Of course you play to win in that sort of format? What else is gief going to do with a sliver of health and a full ultra bar that would win the game? Oh, ya, try something new with a high likelihood of failure in a RANBAT to try and learn something?

I guess HAV just sees the RANBAT as his casuals where he learns things, where I see essentially see the RANBAT as a tourney where it's play to win not play to learn.

Casuals, for sure, play to learn, hell, I am still practising landing combo's in casuals, lol. But when its ranking battle time, I stick to what I know and take far less risks than when I play in casuals.

[fluxcore]

Yeah in the comments he says exactly that: the only situation he sees as 'real' is Evo. Everything else is training.

[electric]

And that makes sense in a scene as large as the US scene. Tournaments are happening practically every week, majors every month... why NOT treat those as training sessions ? Here, it's a little different, in that ranbats and tourneys we do have are so far spread, that doing well becomes more "important" because our scene is so small.

[Lennysaurus]

I really don't get the articles example at the end. I mean, it was in a RANBAT situation that he got "random" ultra'd. Of course you play to win in that sort of format? What else is gief going to do with a sliver of health and a full ultra bar that would win the game? Oh, ya, try something new with a high likelihood of failure in a RANBAT to try and learn something?

I guess HAV just sees the RANBAT as his casuals where he learns things, where I see essentially see the RANBAT as a tourney where it's play to win not play to learn.

Casuals, for sure, play to learn, hell, I am still practising landing combo's in casuals, lol. But when its ranking battle time, I stick to what I know and take far less risks than when I play in casuals.

I think what he is getting at, was that the guy he was playing really had very little chance of winning.  At that point he was presented with an oppourtunity that is far and few between.  He was low on life, under tournament style pressure, in the last round.  So instead of trying to figure it out and learn from an experience that you come across verry little, he basically threw the whole outcome of the round on a chance random ultra.

I guess what I take from the example is that the gief was obviously being outplayed, and wasn't going to win anyway due to player skill/experience disparity.  So why throw away a chance like that on a random chance to swin a round when you could have used it to level up.  Either way he wasn't going to beat HAV, but there were two possible outcomes:

1. LOL Ultra!!! YAY I won a round

2. Losing the round, but figuring something out that he could add to his repetoire

Thats just my take though.