"Improving NZ - One scrub at a time" Article 2

[CaptainHook]

Apologies in advance for the novel. The only redeeming aspect of this post may indeed be that it sparks discussion. Which has to be good for us. I hope.

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Its not really that clear as to what you think is wrong with the we way teach (which we don't really we just offer advice) and pass on information.

Well if i was to start into this again, that would be the first thing i would address. As you said, no one actively teaches.
And maybe it's cause no one knows how to, or the community (world wide) is too young and lets be honest, is also dominated
by younger people. (the desire to teach probably naturally increases as you age..)

What lenny is talking about isn't necessarily about learning. It is more about self awareness as a fighting game player.

So what you're saying is, being self-aware as a fighting game player is something people need to... learn?. Hehehe.

I guess this info should be easier to access for new players but tbh its only been in the last year that people have even bothered to go in depth about such topics. The information is so new that you cant even validate how useful some of it is.

This in my opinion almost responds directly to what you said previously :

If you think the information is hard to get a hold of then your just wrong no offence.

You're right, it isn't hard to get hold of, it's hard to validate the usefulness or even sift through the bad info to find good stuff.
Actually, this is largely the problem with the internet as a whole (and on a side issue a big part of the problem for the
entertainment community; especially music). "Over-saturated". "Signal->noise ratio". It's not hard to find music out there.
It fact, it's too easy. There's so much it has diluted the quality. What IS hard, is finding good ENGAGING music that
tries to do more than win you over in the first two secs before you close the window or go back to your twitter/facebook
page.

What's worse as a new player, is not knowing if the info presented is good or bad. Because you simply don't know any better.
And taking on bad info can really set you back on the path of development. Of course as you get better, you're ability to
sift through info on a topic and find good stuff increases exponentially. But it's about softening that learning curve.

There are few definite answers in fighting games and many points in the game where you have to fill in the gaps with your own knowledge. It is so important to learn how to play according to your own strengths.

I agree. For example, right now i'm not interested in learning anything but fundamentals on the game. Whenever i've asked
for help on matchups, i think i've been pretty clear that i don't want "walk-through's" or "flowcharts", i want an idea of the
general approach. (maybe i've been unclear, wouldn't be the first time) Granted i could learn that by playing the matchup enough,
but if someone else already knows then... I don't think learning combo's in the training room is gonna make me a better player either.
It might win me some more games right now, but that's a short term gain IMHO. I could be very much wrong, but i think if daigo decided
to play with no combos, he'd still do really well because of his strong fundamentals.

What I am saying is that getting better is more than just one or two things.  Its about how to learn, and attitude, and using your time wisely, etc etc.

This will be typical forum behaviour on my part, because i don't disagree with what your saying in essence. BUT (hehe), your attitude and using
your time wisely etc are relevant in the context of a goal. The goal of which is to ultimately learn. (for me). Becoming better is a byproduct of learning.
Your attitude and thinking and time-management are all tools used to aid in learning (for this context). I see learning as the top of the pyramid we're trying
to climb. At least it's the top of mine. So all my comments/actions revolve around that. Someone else may have "fun" at the top of theirs
so obviously the foundation of their pyramid will be different. (i don't know how the analogy of pyramids came in but i went with it.. )

So i guess what i'm saying is, if getter better is your goal then all roads lead to learning. You can't adjust your attitude (for example) without
first learning that perhaps it's not productive, and then learning what a better attitude is, and then learning to put that new attitude into
practice. So if you shift the goal towards learning, (IMHO) the rest (getting better) becomes a lot easier/natural. I have an insatiable thirst for learning. (anything)
I dont even have to focus on getting better because it happens naturally when trying to learn. (and yes, i have some theories about more
effective learning in general but i'm guessing most people stopped reading this post in the first paragraph or when they read my username
at the top of it. )

It might also be that when i talk of learning, i have in my head a different idea of what that means than the way people are interpreting it.
Hopefully now its clear that i consider attitude shifts, using your time wisely, social interaction, mental toughness/dexterity, etc etc all
things to be learnt. I'm not really talking about "i need to learn to option select/FADC/tech throws/blah/blah" although obviously the details
of this game are included in things to be learnt to be good at SF. But i consider that "specific info" to be in one of the top layers of the pyramid.
i.e one of the smaller concerns and things that can be learnt later or with time..

In closing your honour, i agree with your articles and your desire to shift mindsets at a more fundamental level.
But consider that if the only way to change people is through education, perhaps the focus of learning is the more holistic approach
to getting better than it may appear to you (all). And i personally think a holistic approach to learning benefits all of us.

[LN]

As a complete aside, do you paste your posts in from notepad or something, Hook? They all have fucked up spacing and are hard to read :/

[CaptainHook]

Sorry, my formatting is an old habit with origins that i wont bother go into now.
I imagine if your browser window is not the same width as mine that yes, they would be
annoying to read.

[geneterror]

I agree with a lot of what Hook has to say but I'm to lazy to try and type out all the shit I have in my head. Will discuss this in more depth at the next meetup.
Hook the offer still stands for you to come around to my place to play, learn and pick my brain. I'm an old bastard that used to teach intellectually handicapped people how to use computers, I'm sure I can teach an able minded person some Street Fighter

[[8-----D] Toots]

We'll talk about this at christmas damager as there are too many things to go over and its not really on the topic of the article.

[CaptainHook]

Thanks Graeme, don't worry i WILL be taking you up on your offer (and Kurts and a few others). I finish work
for good in 3 weeks and i will be super happy guy.

Just to be clear tho, i'm not complaining that people aren't teaching me enough or anything. I'm saying i see
some problems here and i think we could make things better for everyone (that's interested anyway..).

Sorry if this was hijacking your thread Lenny, but i do think it's very relevant to what you're talking about so
i see it as natural discussion.

Ben ~ i'm always keen to pick your brain on this shit. And if my posts do nothing but get us talking about this at
meetups then that's a win in my book.

[Unbeliever]

Nice read Lenny, regarding the 'play less' part and quality over quantity, a few months back Rumble and I would agree before we started playing each other that we would be playing to improve. By playing to improve it could be as little as implementing a new combo to progressing to trying new setups or mixups to even a whole change of playstyle, e.g. more/ less aggressive. At the end of each session we would play one serious set and over time I could see that the stuff that worked while playing to improve would eventually become part of our standard repertoire.

[zos'la]

soo much to read, I skim thru many, kinda got teh idea of thsi post@@....

@Lenny, Nice post yet again.

Random stuff for hook and the new perople.
@None of us are teachers nor in the position to teach tbh, as a community we help where we can when players ask because there are just TOO much to cover when u start to learn the game. Everything we have learnt are from experience, well at least for me anyways. We just dont have the people to write/ compile all the stuff together, I see what you mean by productive learning, you seem to the type to have everything planned out right and ready to use. But at this stage we are not, and it won't be for a while. I am not saying your approach is incorrect, but your expectation to the "learning" is different than many, but so am I. So I went away and did it my way and went along with how the others do it as this HOW it is for now. I always believe in how much effort you put in is how much you get in return, no shortcuts, as there is no easy way of learning as we all have difference mind sets on how you're suppose to learn, ther eain't no right nor wrong.
IT'S WHAT IS RIGHT TO YOU.

[CaptainHook]

Yeah, i know that's how it is now. But we can change it.

[Gamogo]

Cliffs:

Quality, not quantity.

<fin>

[CrazyMobius]

Hey yall not sure if this is really the right forum to discuss this but I just had a Street Fighter epiphany. While playing a player online I noticed one thing while he was beating me. He was playing on a much faster level than I was. So no matter who I picked or who he picked he would have an advantage.

My theory is that this speed of play is the single biggest factor between levels of play. And levelling up your play. I believe this is why Japanese players (or others) who concentrate on spacing have the upper hand. Because they move faster to get into that position and react once they are there.

There are two aspects to this. Body and mind. (Obviously) I think both need to be conditioned in order to be a master. And because both affect the other, if one is neglected in practicing you will not be able to level up as you desire.

So now the question comes just How to speed up your game? I haven't figured this out yet but I'll keep thinking on this issue. I really think this is the sole reason why the top players in NZ and also world tournaments always end up there because they have conditioned themselves to process the game at such a fast speed. If anyone has any thoughts on this aspect especially on anyone's methods to improve on it I would be interested to hear.

Thanks.

[CaptainHook]

Speed training. I don't know of a way to speed up SSF4, but i played some people at ST on speed 3 (on ggpo it's faster than normal)
for a while and when i played some people after (that usually waste me) i could hold my own a LOT more. "Normal" speed felt like
slow motion because i was used to reacting to things quicker. Timing for combos etc was off but i play guile right now so it wasn't
such a factor. It went away over the week as i only played speed 2 after that but the same thoughts you had crossed my mind.

They does this in some sports also. (Literally practice the activity at a much quicker pace than normal..)

I don't know if the benefits would be good long term though and there would be concern for combo timing as i said. But it's something to
consider at least.

[fluxcore]

David Sirlin, Playing to Win - Prescence of Mind

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/9-presence-of-mind.html

[[NIUE] weazzyefff]

Bro, it's the crack. Just anyone who plays Bison and they'll tell you.

[[NIUE] B1ackstar Ninja]

jeff schaffer on how to be a better player .

looks like hes doing a new set of vids yay