NEW Tournament for SF4 Brainstorming

[CrazyMobius]

I don't get why people wanna make drama when our community is so small 

Simon(Crazy Mobius) and whoever else that has some kind of problem with the recent tournament(valid reason or not) please get over it...We don't need beef. Just organise another, better tournament without making silly remarks. A well run tourney speaks volumes...much more so than a forum post.

Oh and I'm not trying to take sides. I'm saying there shouldn't be any sides at all for such trivial stuff. People can run a tournament however they feel:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=181086

Really? You have me intrigued. Also, what controversial stuff?

Most likely Hue playing for Simon in the finals, one character only rule and the banning of Seth and Gouken. Three very valid points if you ask me.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just not used to this new style of Street Fighter community. My problem. If it's making people happy I guess that's all that matters.

[fluxcore]

I dunno. Maybe I'm just not used to this new style of Street Fighter community. My problem. If it's making people happy I guess that's all that matters.

You mean having one at all? I don't understand what you mean by 'new style'.

If you've got things you want to say, you can always PM me if you don't want to bring it up in public. I'm always interested in hearing what people have to say about how to improve the site or community.

While it's great to have people running tournaments, by no means should it become a divisive affair - NZ is simply too small to cope with that, and it'll ruin what little we have.

[Hydro]

I dunno. Maybe I'm just not used to this new style of Street Fighter community. My problem. If it's making people happy I guess that's all that matters.

You mean having one at all? I don't understand what you mean by 'new style'.

If you've got things you want to say, you can always PM me if you don't want to bring it up in public. I'm always interested in hearing what people have to say about how to improve the site or community.

While it's great to have people running tournaments, by no means should it become a divisive affair - NZ is simply too small to cope with that, and it'll ruin what little we have.

Well, speaking for myself on the latest tournament:


I think the tourney aimed to do some things well, obviously getting many newer players to become aware of the competitive scene is a good thing, but a tourney isn't the sort of activity that encourages 'community growth' IMO. A tournament is what you have when you already have an esablished player/hardcore base. At this point, what was the purpose of at least 20 of the players on saturday turning up APART from swelling numbers to make it seem like we have a thriving hardcore/competitive community.

The comments, like the one from Hue about "just pay your money and we don't care if you show up' was just one of the comments, along with the superfluous/unexplained rules (With NO validity given for such) really killed the idea of attending the tourney for me.

I wanted, as a competitive player, some questions answered by the tournament organisers (And the clique) and got "Get OVER it" in reply. I feel as someone who has been envolved in SFIV since it's arrival here, and indeed the whole SF series since 1992, that I deserved the explaination and respect at least from being recognised as someone who has done alot to supplment the communtiy and growth of newer players for many, many years here in Auckland. I wanted a successful tourney, more than anyone.

I challenge anyone to tell me that in the face of the recent tournament, that we could not have done better to some of our oldest and wisest players. The Fact that Simon (Crazymobius) didn't attend speaks volumes about the attitiude I share towards this last particular competitive venture. I would have thought at least his presence would have been sorely missed, as we all know he is among the very top players here in NZ. Same goes for Nathan (Our best Ken player at Yifans) and the "margarita" falla (that tall european guy who plays gief, honda, blanka and dictator). As an aside, I just don't think enough was done to make this a true competitive tournament for our community, as at least four of the 10 or so highly competitive players either decided to not show, or simply didn't even know about it.

Measures must be taken by people who step up to become the figureheads of this community to ensure fairness and to display an attitiude that can build a successful player environment. I have put my hand up time and time again to do this, and will do so again and again. I have a passion for the series and for the competition and community, and I feel that given proper leadership we can establish core base of at least 30 hardcore/competitive players and THEN we can go about having our little tournaments to see who's "best"

No disrespect to anyone please, I'm not picking a fight, jsut voicing my opinion. I know my thoughts are shared by at least a few of the attendees (And non-attendees) from the recent tournament. I would hope that at the very least these issues would be addressed before discussion on details pertaining to the next venture could commence.

[gunsmoke]

..................................................

[fluxcore]

Wow, you guys sound really stuck up.

Sorry, but that's just the impression I get. You're too good to attend a tournament because it's not exactly the ruleset you want? Pretty pathetic imo. I'm half expecting whatever mysterious tourney thing you guys are organising to be an invite-only affair for the 5 people you think are good enough to join.

As for the ruleset, I voiced my opinion several times, but it wasn't my tournament and really it's up to the organizer to do what they want. Andy said "let's try it like this and see how it goes". If you have some problem with that, then that's too bad - I thought it went really quite well for a first crack (excepting Simon having to leave, of course).

You guys can only be as involved as you want to be. You're just as guilty as anyone else for not letting people who might be interested know about a tournament that's coming up.

I could go on and on about how ridiculous it is to take this past tournament as some kind of 'master of all things' Evo-like tournament - as far as I was concerned it was an opportunity to meet some of you guys that could be bothered turning up, and have some good matches under some pressure I wouldn't normally experience, meanwhile introducing some new players to the scene. Even your statement of having 30 hardcore players to have tournaments with is so elitist and uninclusive that it is pretty unhealthy.

So yeah, you guys need to chill out and not be so serious about things right now.

[Hydro]

Wow, you guys sound really stuck up.

Sorry, but that's just the impression I get. You're too good to attend a tournament because it's not exactly the ruleset you want? Pretty pathetic imo. I'm half expecting whatever mysterious tourney thing you guys are organising to be an invite-only affair for the 5 people you think are good enough to join.

As for the ruleset, I voiced my opinion several times, but it wasn't my tournament and really it's up to the organizer to do what they want. Andy said "let's try it like this and see how it goes". If you have some problem with that, then that's too bad - I thought it went really quite well for a first crack (excepting Simon having to leave, of course).

You guys can only be as involved as you want to be. You're just as guilty as anyone else for not letting people who might be interested know about a tournament that's coming up.

I could go on and on about how ridiculous it is to take this past tournament as some kind of 'master of all things' Evo-like tournament - as far as I was concerned it was an opportunity to meet some of you guys that could be bothered turning up, and have some good matches under some pressure I wouldn't normally experience, meanwhile introducing some new players to the scene. Even your statement of having 30 hardcore players to have tournaments with is so elitist and uninclusive that it is pretty unhealthy.

So yeah, you guys need to chill out and not be so serious about things right now.

Dude, please.

No one said anything about being too good to attend, like I said it wasn't just the rules for me, it was the ATTITIUDE. As you'll see from my posts here, I was encouraging of others who chose to attend. I don't know where you're getting this whole I'm too good to go, more like, it's not right for me

Fair enough for Andy to choose whatever rules. I thought I had a right to ask questions about them. Sorry if this wasn't the case, Obviously.

And as for the comment of having 30 hardcore/competitive players, stop being so obtuse. It wasn't elitist at all and you know it, you know as well as I do that having a tournament of 30 compeitive players is going to be a damn sight better than having a tournament where you have 10 competitve players and 20 other guys just to pay their 10 bucks and swell the prize money. Right?

Alan, I mean WTF. . . I respect you dude, and I just said I wasn't trying to pick a fight, just dropping an opinion brother.
This is the thread for discussion on the tournament isn't it. Next time if you don't want people to actually discuss actual concerns we should also include "NO serious discussion Pls k" lol in the title. 

Sorry for Rant again.

[Lennysaurus]

Moving Forward...

I propose that on Saturday the 25th of April we hold a "Grind Session" at RVB.

It would be a 4 hour session, utilizing one of the small bays of 4 TV's as well as the large plasma.

The basic gist of it being that we get EVERYONE down there playing, and those of us that have been around a while help the new guys out.  As well as us being able to throw down against each other first.

I'd suggest that we have one experienced player taking shifts on each of the pods offering advice to the new players.

I also suggest that we have the large plasma reserved for "Expert matches" and we can stand around and explain to the newbies what the guys are doing onscreen.  We'll record those of course.

Maybe even issue out nametag stickers in different colours.  One colour for OG's and another for those keen to learn.

Measures of success for the event:
•   We get at least 8 new members to the site
•   We announce a date for our next tourney to the people that are there
•   We get at least 30 people down there for the event

Questions I have:
•   How much will RVB expect us to pay for an event like this?  Do we charge peeps?  Maybe just put out a bucket for donations?
•   Do we have enough hardware (consoles, copies of SFIV, joysticks) to make this happen?
•   How can we promote the site through these events better?  Business cards with the site logo and url on it?  Sexy naked chicks with the url on their buttcheeks?

I reckon that this could go well.  No tourney pressure, loads of good games.  And a goo way to announce a tourney live and in person.  And as I mentioned earlier we could even get David Farrier to attend it.  No drama could come of this... we can all just turn up and help swell the community.

[Hydro]

Moving Forward...

I propose that on Saturday the 25th of April we hold a "Grind Session" at RVB.

It would be a 4 hour session, utilizing one of the small bays of 4 TV's as well as the large plasma.

The basic gist of it being that we get EVERYONE down there playing, and those of us that have been around a while help the new guys out.  As well as us being able to throw down against each other first.

I'd suggest that we have one experienced player taking shifts on each of the pods offering advice to the new players.

I also suggest that we have the large plasma reserved for "Expert matches" and we can stand around and explain to the newbies what the guys are doing onscreen.  We'll record those of course.

Maybe even issue out nametag stickers in different colours.  One colour for OG's and another for those keen to learn.

Measures of success for the event:
•   We get at least 8 new members to the site
•   We announce a date for our next tourney to the people that are there
•   We get at least 30 people down there for the event

Questions I have:
•   How much will RVB expect us to pay for an event like this?  Do we charge peeps?  Maybe just put out a bucket for donations?
•   Do we have enough hardware (consoles, copies of SFIV, joysticks) to make this happen?
•   How can we promote the site through these events better?  Business cards with the site logo and url on it?  Sexy naked chicks with the url on their buttcheeks?

I reckon that this could go well.  No tourney pressure, loads of good games.  And a goo way to announce a tourney live and in person.  And as I mentioned earlier we could even get David Farrier to attend it.  No drama could come of this... we can all just turn up and help swell the community.

Agree.

More than happy ot help in any way, including the following:

A good friend of mine is responsible for the all of the gaming orgainsation @ the Armageddon show in Welly, and also owns NZgamer.co.nz. I could arrange advertising through him on their website (Which gets over 2000 hits a day at least) for little or no $$$. 

I also have connections to gameplayer.co.nz and Nz gameplayer magazine. both of which could push the event for us for a little traffic towards thier interests.

Cool? Just let me know when to get started.

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Fuck you guys replying before me. Anyway, all valid points by Hydro, but i feel i should mention this one.

I think the tourney aimed to do some things well, obviously getting many newer players to become aware of the competitive scene is a good thing, but a tourney isn't the sort of activity that encourages 'community growth' IMO. A tournament is what you have when you already have an esablished player/hardcore base. At this point, what was the purpose of at least 20 of the players on saturday turning up APART from swelling numbers to make it seem like we have a thriving hardcore/competitive community.

I respectuflly disagree, to an extent.

I understand that the way a lot of people think of a tournament is PURELY competitive, (ie. non-promotional, pro-players only) which, given the right circumstances, is fine. I don't believe NZ reflects the circumstances needed to be true. (Opinion obviously) As for the 20+ terrible people who were there to 'pad' the numbers, (and God knows i was/am one of them, if not the WORST one) Look at the rugby world cup. Is Samoa ever going to win? Not likely (despite my undying support) but theyre still there. Obviously, like in our RVB tourney, this bodes the question "Why?" Samoa keep coming back because, like all decent people, a loss only makes them want to get better. Samoa come back every few years with new tricks, and a more polished side. As do a lot of the minor teams. Samoa vs tonga/argentina etc. are always entertaining, because something decent always happens that youre not expecting. (Hell, ive even seen some quality play come from fucking japan >_>)

Compare this to the RVB tourney. Good players had good competition with good players, and not so good players had good competition with others at their level. Good competition was had all around by everyone. (Probably why it was so successful and well-recieved) Not only that, a lot of us wouldve come out thinking "Wow im going to learn to play *character* like that guy", or "That combo was awesome, ima practice that shit dawg." (no laughing at these retarded quotes btw. theyre only here to prove a point) A lot of the people who arguably had no point being there will come out of it considerably better off.

I went into that tourney with 0 player vs player experience with El Fuerte, and didn't do well at all. All this did was motivate me to improve for the next tourney, which im sure is the same for a lot of the others that got ousted early. Statistically this won't be true for all of them, but for most, i would guess that this is pretty accurate.

I believe that an open public tournament doesn't add "community growth" ONLY if there is an established scene in the first place. (As hardcore players in an established community would see the competition as trivial, and understandably so.) But when the community does not exist, or is particularly small (as is the case in NZ) then those that DONT have professional experience would gain a bit of insight, and improve because of it.

There is even numerical proof that the tournament has actively increased the size/intrest of the community. Look at how many new forum members there have been since the tournament was announced. Maybe not concrete proof, but its hardly ignorable. No, a lot of them won't be at 'pro' level yet, but ill bet David's mother that they will be a hell of a lot better the next time around.

The tournament HAS increased awareness, and the size of the player base already. As the community grows, the increase in size will get exponentially smaller, to the point where open tourneys may potentially not become the best medium to use to promote growth. But its not even close to being at that point yet. And on the flip side, the skill level of the existing community will get exponentially greater, meaning the quality of future tournaments will be a hell of a lot better. The tournament did its promotional job, and did it pretty well.

[fluxcore]

No one said anything about being too good to attend, like I said it wasn't just the rules for me, it was the ATTITIUDE. As you'll see from my posts here, I was encouraging of others who chose to attend. I don't know where you're getting this whole I'm too good to go, more like, it's not right for me

The only attitude I remember was when people started saying they weren't coming because of whatever reason, which I thought was pretty weak, and I think I said so.

Fair enough for Andy to choose whatever rules. I thought I had a right to ask questions about them. Sorry if this wasn't the case, Obviously.

Well, he explained his reasons to my satisfaction. I guess I didn't ask questions, just said what I thought rules should be, but same diff.

And as for the comment of having 30 hardcore/competitive players, stop being so obtuse. It wasn't elitist at all and you know it, you know as well as I do that having a tournament of 30 compeitive players is going to be a damn sight better than having a tournament where you have 10 competitve players and 20 other guys just to pay their 10 bucks and swell the prize money. Right?

Depends entirely what you hope to gain from the tourney. I already explained what I thought this past tourney was about. If you want a tourney where only the best players turn up, then that wasn't it - however I still think that's a stupid reason for 'boycotting' it. I met a bunch of cool people there, you guys obviously not included - and I think our community is stronger for it.

Alan, I mean WTF. . . I respect you dude, and I just said I wasn't trying to pick a fight, just dropping an opinion brother.
This is the thread for discussion on the tournament isn't it. Next time if you don't want people to actually discuss actual concerns we should also include "NO serious discussion Pls k" lol in the title.

Hey, you're putting your side of the story across, and I'm responding with mine - the discussion itself is serious, but I think they way you're reading into the issue itself is TOO serious at the moment.
As you say yourself, this isn't the correct time in the community to have some hardout 'best of the best' style tournament - we don't have enough hardcore players. Hence this past tournament which was to try to spark up interest in people that might BECOME interested enough. I can understand that you wouldn't find such a tournament as exciting or whatever as one with only hardout people, but as I keep saying, I don't think that's a good reason to skip it - and that's where the elitist feeling comes from.
And if you don't think a tournament like that actually helps interest new players, then in my mind that's been disproven already.

[fluxcore]

A bunch of excellent points which is what I was getting at

This.

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Dammit. Everyone already has the point i was trying to make with that longass post. >_<

Additionally

How can we promote the site through these events better?  Business cards with the site logo and url on it?  Sexy naked chicks with the url on their buttcheeks?

Ill get richards mum on this asap.

[gunsmoke]

Hmmmmm.........where should i start....no offence..
Everyone have their point of view. It is not easy to set a tournament like this. Like a place that where everyone meet up . It was not 100% set up . But it did well overrall.

As u say example : The comments, like the one from Hue about "just pay your money and we don't care if you show up' was just one of the comments, along with the superfluous/unexplained rules (With NO validity given for such) really killed the idea of attending the tourney for me. What if nobody come? what point of setting up the tourney then no one show up. I show up even i have to work till 4pm .Make myself here to feel the crowd , how many people will show up .

The whole point is to make things works. fuk i donno how to put in words. What is happened is already happened just look forward for another new Tournament . Any error b4 the tourney voice up and comment.

I feel Proud for NZ 2 have a tourney like this.

[fluxcore]

Questions I have:
•   How much will RVB expect us to pay for an event like this?  Do we charge peeps?  Maybe just put out a bucket for donations?
•   Do we have enough hardware (consoles, copies of SFIV, joysticks) to make this happen?
•   How can we promote the site through these events better?  Business cards with the site logo and url on it?  Sexy naked chicks with the url on their buttcheeks?

You'd have to ask RvB, I don't think there was discussion about the little booth things.
Presumably charge the trainees a nominal fee just to make sure they are coming to learn and not just get some free games. If that doesn't cover it, maybe a few of us will be willing to chip in.
I guess we'll have our TE sticks by then?
I actually had some business cards made in Photoshop a while back, but didn't print any for this past tournament due to time and lack of a finalised iMagneto-logo

I reckon that this could go well.  No tourney pressure, loads of good games.  And a goo way to announce a tourney live and in person.  And as I mentioned earlier we could even get David Farrier to attend it.  No drama could come of this... we can all just turn up and help swell the community.

Can't see much wrong with that.

[gunsmoke]

Moving Forward...

I propose that on Saturday the 25th of April we hold a "Grind Session" at RVB.

It would be a 4 hour session, utilizing one of the small bays of 4 TV's as well as the large plasma.

The basic gist of it being that we get EVERYONE down there playing, and those of us that have been around a while help the new guys out.  As well as us being able to throw down against each other first.

I'd suggest that we have one experienced player taking shifts on each of the pods offering advice to the new players.

I also suggest that we have the large plasma reserved for "Expert matches" and we can stand around and explain to the newbies what the guys are doing onscreen.  We'll record those of course.

Maybe even issue out nametag stickers in different colours.  One colour for OG's and another for those keen to learn.

Measures of success for the event:
•   We get at least 8 new members to the site
•   We announce a date for our next tourney to the people that are there
•   We get at least 30 people down there for the event

Questions I have:
•   How much will RVB expect us to pay for an event like this?  Do we charge peeps?  Maybe just put out a bucket for donations?
•   Do we have enough hardware (consoles, copies of SFIV, joysticks) to make this happen?
•   How can we promote the site through these events better?  Business cards with the site logo and url on it?  Sexy naked chicks with the url on their buttcheeks?

I reckon that this could go well.  No tourney pressure, loads of good games.  And a goo way to announce a tourney live and in person.  And as I mentioned earlier we could even get David Farrier to attend it.  No drama could come of this... we can all just turn up and help swell the community.

this wot im talking about