Pre-release Super Street Fighter IV details

[electric]

And why would they put startup on a run? Its a fucking run.

Actually, that's a good fucking point. Ignore my idiocy

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Unfortunately vega's strengths are Fuerte's weaknesses. Any character that can poke safely and aggressively (Chun/Rufus/Vega/Rog to name a few) should have an advantage.

My theory when playing you was that i should try to air throw the wall dives etc.

Didnt pay off. Im not even sure if it works. But it wasnt the wall dives, OR the previously mentioned hop kick that were screwing me over. It was the fucking Jabs. I dont think the match is as much in Vega's favour as it seems though. Vegas offense leaves a lot of holes that i should be able to get around with enough experience. Its like my offense in general, but safer. X(

[DVS]

Unfortunately vega's strengths are Fuerte's weaknesses. Any character that can poke safely and aggressively (Chun/Rufus/Vega/Rog to name a few) should have an advantage.

My theory when playing you was that i should try to air throw the wall dives etc.

Didnt pay off. Im not even sure if it works. I need to watch that airthrow video again. >_> I dont think the match is as much in Vega's favour as it seems though. Vegas offense leaves a lot of holes that i should be able to get around with enough experience. Its like my offense in general, but safer. X(

His wall dives can be tricky as you can control the direction in the air, crossing up off the other side of the wall fools most players - cross up one side, then cross up onto the other side again....

His flic flac escape is pretty good too....Fuerte normally has a good chance to attack when he scores a knock down....but Vega is able to just avoid it.

Guard breaks and sticking to Vega like glue are the best ways to take him down.

[HoneyBadger]

i think if el fruity had a safe way of getting up then he might have all the tools he needs

I lol'd clearly blocking isn't safe hahaha

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Im still a bit confused as to what barnstorm means. Like what? A DP? That shit aint safe.

Gene: Yea the wall dives are a similar principle to Fuerte and his splashes. Which is why i managed to block most of them.

His flic flac (Brilliant term there btw) is great against splashes, but not much else. Tortilla/slide/etc recovers before it, so Fuerte gets a free throw opportunity if he can bait it on wake up. But as you say, sticking to him seems to be the way to go, but Vegas jabs are really really good at keeping him away. Biggest problem for me is getting a knockdown on him. And Vega can fucking jab me out of my blockstrings, which is eye-stabbingly irritating.

Im defintely gonna take the advice on board. I love learning new shit.

Ever dressed up like a lucha, and had a spanish person jab your shins with a fork? That shit hurts. Its why youll never see me at another bullfight again.

[Barnstorm]

i think safe was not the right word i just dont think he has all the tools he needs especially once knocked an opponent has no need to fear mixing him up

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

i think safe was not the right word i just dont think he has all the tools he needs especially once knocked an opponent has no need to fear mixing him up

Again. EX run. Here you have something that absorbs 2 hits. Starts up in 0 frames, and allows you to go into a myriad of different options upon use.

Lets say ken sweeps me. Ok. Naturally, he thinks to himself, ok, fuerte has no DP, so i can go for the cross up.

I EX run, absorbing his J.mk. Now at this point, my options, assuming i ran backwards, are:

1:Splash.
2:Tortilla.
3:Stop the run
4:Other weird shit that i wont get into, because its only going to be effective ONCE. EVER.

Lets look at Kens options, following the absorb.

1:SHOOOOOOORRRRRYYYYUUUUKEEENNNNN
2:Block
3:Hadouken
4:C.hp

If hes been playing like a turtle, mix up 1 or 2. If hes mashing, stop the run, and punish whatever the tard does next. If he knows the match up. Stop the run. Now youre safe. If the opponent knows the match, then you, as a fuerte player, will be plenty happy knowing that youre safe. Even so, you will have plenty of results mixing up the splash and the tortilla, against all of the above options. 80% of the time, hes going to try to block. Emphasis on 'TRY'. If he blocks. You lose. This is true. But the same can be said if he blocks your wake up DP.

If i get knocked down, and i have meter, most of the time it comes out in my favour as Fuerte. If i dont have meter, i block or backdash, or do other generic options that ALL characters are capable of doing. I realise i wont have meter all the time, but are you going to throw out that wake up dragon all the time as well? No. (I assume)

Giving fuerte a move like this is uneccessary. He doesnt need it. Its not how he plays. Its kind of like complaining that gief doesnt have a fireball to deal with people that can zone him.

And after saying all that, you could always try using his Q-bomb. Beats out all of rogs dash punches. beats out hondas headbutt. breaks focus. Is FADC-able. Propels him across the screen, and at its very worst, it trades with just about everything else in the game. (And beats them out when it doesnt.)

But eventually you will realise that you would really rather not have to give up one of his kick buttons for it. Despite the fact that it does all of the above. Its just not how he plays.

Once you start thinking outside the box, you'll realise that he doesnt need it. Im not going to deny that it would be nice, (And if they changed the input for Q-bomb, you would see that shit A LOT more i'd wager) but it would also be nice if lariat shot fireballs.

[massi4h]

I'm too lazy to read all of that just like I'm too lazy to actually learn Fuerte (an hour trying to do do 3 rsf's for the last hard trial is enough for me), but as ken if I jump in cross up and you EX run I'd probably go for a kara throw. But that's just ken.

[[NIUE] weazzyefff]

Fuck i was just about to say you forgot throw. OS on fuerte like my lil bitch all day babbbeeyyy.

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Kara throw doesnt catch him unless fuerte stops the run too early. If he goes for a splash or a tortilla, a kara-throwing ken is going to eat it. Even so, you can EX run late enough that the ken player is still in the hit-confirming headspace, so odds are hes going to go for a low forward or something anyway.

In order for the Kara throw to work, ken has to predict that fuerte is A) Going to EX run, and B) Going to stop the run close enough for the kara to connect.

But im not going to deny that throwing fuerte on wake up isnt a terrible plan. He can only tech or go for a neutral jump hp. But generally throws on wake up are pretty easily telegraphed. I dont know how many people who have tried this on me have been ultra'd on wake up. (lolwakeupultra)

If i were Ken against fuerte, i would be waiting for the EX backrun out of my crossup, and backdashing when you see it. If the fuerte tends to go for a splash every time (i can get guilty of this every now and then) Then after the EX backrun, i would go for a C.hp.

Run -> stop -> slide is going to beat both of these options, and a tortilla will catch the backdash if its distanced appropriately.

Mix it up for sure. But i dont see how applying wake up mix ups/pressure/bait to fuerte is any different to applying wakeup mix ups/pressure/bait to any other character. Fuerte has options to counter, like any other character does. Just because they aren't as brainded as a wake up dragon doesn't mean theyre not effective. Evading and countering seems safer to me personally than trying to guess right with a DP.

Its NOT going to work every time, but neither is a dragon, so as far as im concerned, there isnt much of an argument here. Its a 2-part counter rather than a 1-part counter. Yes, its slightly more complex, but not as bad, and not NEARLY as ineffective as Barnstorm seems to think it is.

In an effort to keep this shit on topic, the only situation where fuerte might need a move like a DP is to counter poke pressure (not on wakeup. But in general) That stuff eats him alive. By the looks of his new ultra, its going to do this job pretty well though. He doesnt need a DP for it, but having the option of his ultra against this sort of thing is going to be a useful addition.

Sorry if my posts are long, but i do like (and try) to give quite comprehensive replies.



TL:DR version for lazy people: Mason is a fag.

[HoneyBadger]

A bunch of bullshit


TL:DR version for lazy people: Mason is a fag.

QFT

I reckon Fuerte is a cool character for single elim sheat like SBO and barfights. I remember at Xlan when Leo busted out his fuerte on Kevin and he was just like fuck this shit, I'm using Sagat. I think a lot of the reason why people find Fuerte free is that a lot of people learn da shenannigans without having a proper gameplan that isn't RSF AS MUCH AS I CAN. The argument of not having a solid answer for everything can be used for pretty much all characters.

Make Fei Long rekka 2nd hit safe and break armor in SSF4... yeeeeeea

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

My point is, that if he played anything like the rest of the cast, he might need the dp. But he DOESN'T play like that, so he DOESN'T need it.

Rest of cast = omg opponent is jumping time to dragon
Fuerte = omg opponent is jumping, time to evade that shit and head fuck him even more with my mixups.

In a nutshell.

[maelgrim]

Make Fei Long rekka 2nd hit safe and break armor in SSF4... yeeeeeea

Yeah i'm all for that one 

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Can you focus after the first rekka hit? That doesnt seem right. Assuming you focus the first hit the second WILL break armour. Am i missing something?

And the second hit is safe at the right distance iirc. Same as the first. But to be fair im not hugely familiar with Fei.

[Lennysaurus]

Can you focus after the first rekka hit? That doesnt seem right. Assuming you focus the first hit the second WILL break armour. Am i missing something?

And the second hit is safe at the right distance iirc. Same as the first. But to be fair im not hugely familiar with Fei.

If they delay the second rekka you can focus it