I've been listening to a Warhammer40k (table-top miniatures based wargame) podcast recently, mainly just for nostalgia. I used to play most of those games, was a member of a club, and spent a lot of money building up my armies. Buying these miniatures is extremely expensive, and naturally the better/bigger units cost more.
One of the points they touched upon in the latest podcast was a tournament featuring very large armies, and allegations have been made that the #1 position was basically just determined by who had the most money to spend on their army. The argument was made that any competitive activity at some point, when skill is taken out of the equation, comes down to who has spent the most on equipment. Car racing, golf, paintball, archery, FPSes, you name it.
Naturally the next thought is, "Well, if the competitors in these events are able to spend lots of money, surely that means there are companies making lots of money from this fact". Companies making lots of money off an activity tends to be quite good, because then they have a vested interest in the future of that activity. Car racing is a huge industry. PC competitive gaming is coming along, there are lots of companies like NVidia who are releasing 'celebrity' branded hardware specifically for competitors, and in turn sponsor events to make it known they sell these items.
I disagree with the podcaster who stated that all competitive activities come down to money spending, and I can easily cite examples. Chess requires exactly one board and the 32 various pieces, all of which could be made using cardboard and function precisely as well as the most expensive chess set available. Every possible complex strategy can be represented using the cheapest possible materials, and many other board games share this attribute. Unfortunately this trait also means there's not a lot of turnover profit for companies that make chess parts. Once a person has a chess set, there's really no incentive to buy anything further. Following on, these companies therefore don't have much interest in sponsoring events, because the people entering a competition already have all the equipment they need.
Fighting games are in a similar position. While there are definitely differing quality sticks, in all honesty the mid-range sticks allow a person to perform near the top of their game, to a point where a beginner would have to put considerable time in to notice a real jump when moving to more expensive equipment. Even the most expensive equipment isn't particularly out of reach of any serious competitor, ~$350NZD for the top-of-the-line equipment isn't outrageous for a competitive activity. The only time you'll have to buy anything afterwards is if a button breaks, or if a new console comes out which doesn't support your old stick.
This presents a slight problem. In order to gain sponsors who have a vested interest in the fighting game hobby, they need to have a solid profit path from it. This therefore rules out almost all parties except for button and stick manufacturers. Game developers and console makers are vaguely interested, but definitely not to the same degree as an engine oil manufacturer is to car racing. What's even worse is that only distributors of fighting game related products exist in New Zealand, so we really don't have any direct path to companies who would make the best sponsors, which in turn means our events are less enticing and in general the community is smaller than it could be.
While chess has certainly stood the test of time without all of the sponsorship, it can't exactly be said to be drawing massive crowds these days, and similarly I feel the lack of ongoing costs in the fighting game hobby contribute to the community being smaller than it should be. This isn't really anything that could or should be changed, just something all fighting game event organisers have to take into account when trying to organise a sponsored event, and something to keep in mind when considering the state of the community as a whole.
O.o Once you say "taking skill out of the equation" it instantly makes you a dumbass
That's how every tier list and matchup chart are generated. You know exactly what it's saying, take two similarly-skilled opponents, the one who spent more is more likely to win.
But it's such a fucking stupid argument. It takes out all the shit like time spent and teamwork. How the fuck are you supposed to know whether someone using a deathadder or a diamondback is going to win? What about the people who swear by ball mice? Minis, TCGs and MMOs are hugely different from shit like fighters and RTS. I just see that argument as pretty pointless.
Who the hell plays an FPS or RTS and swears by a ball mouse?
Also, what you're taking offense to is completely not the point of what I wrote.
But at least you read it...
Quote from: fluxcore on October 16, 2009, 01:36:22 PM
Who the hell plays an FPS or RTS and swears by a ball mouse?
I met a Russian Quake 3 player who swore by his ball mouse. Something to do with acceleration or something.
Yeah I'm sure it's much better when you get one of the bits of gunk on the ball and you get that extra radial velocity as it has to go down the bump...
Quote from: fluxcore on October 16, 2009, 01:36:22 PM
But at least you read it...
I read it also... just trying to formulate an argument -- also, NZism at work = hella distracting
Well I don't know what I could say in response but I will say that supporting the community, whether it be purchasing dvds or games is still something that we should do. Even if it might not be recognized by companies and sponsors... :-\
I understand that my gripes aren't really what this is about, but people who talk like it's all about money really piss me off. There are so many other elements to some of these things, especially as competitive FPS and paintball are team sports.
*sigh*, no shit, it's a thought experiment. All other things being equal, a guy with a potato is not going to beat a guy with a knife in a knife fight. OBVIOUSLY in reality things are more complex, but no meaningful conversation can take place when trying to account for all factors, and abstractions such as this one can be useful for making a point.
Ok, after re-reading the artical I can (at least think I can) understand that what your trying to say is:
If we want to get companies interested in this area of gaming and provide sponsorship, then we need to show them that their is a profit to made. Right?
I mean, with fighting games there is limited opertunity for a new company to come in and provide a service that players will pay for.
I do however think that (at least in the states) this area of gaming is becoming more "mainstream" and that the effort being done with tournaments, bar fights, radio shows, documentaries etc is helping the world fighting game scene.
Radio and Tv brings advertising
Merchandise brings suppliers
Tournaments can produce merchandise etc
So, with respects to the NZ scene
The issue that we have is that the player base is small. Not too small. At the moment it would be considered "out of the question" for someone like mightyape to place a bulk order to capcom for 1000 TE sticks, or 1000 sanwa buttons. However, they do have TE sticks available, so there must be some sort of profit. So all is not lost.
I feel that if we really wanted to push some sort of local (NZ) sponsorship scene, then we need to make it apparent that we will purchase buttons, sticks, games, merchandise only from NZ suppliers.
Feel free to tear this comment apart someone...
^ Wugga is eating uppercuts
Although I agree mostly with the article, I still think that there are avenues for revenue making for any gaming outfit. Fighting gameers have a larger interest base than just fighting games.
At the end of the day most of us are male gamers, between the ages of 20 and 30, with no families and disposable incomes. That is a marketers dream group for someone wanting to sell comics, games, movies etc. I think it's only a matter of time before we see street fighter and tekken tournaments held at most major lan events, and as a flow on effect, sponsored prizes, and sponsored players.
My two cents anyway.
Great article by the way flux. Really thought provoking. You should link to it in other forums!
Thanks Lenny.
Yeah obviously the subject line is just supposed to be 'controversial', but the conclusion paragraph is kind of to say that while there isn't an obvious sponsor, we can still make it work, it'll just require a bit more work and lateral thinking. It kind of ties into a bit of the stuff I said in the interview for gameculture.co.nz as well.
I think that angle on the money argument (who has spent the most on gear)
its not as important as who is able to spend the most time, which is where the money argument makes most sense. Those that can afford to play / compete full time or gain sponsorship to do so have a big step up.
Ive played competitive Wargaming, Magic the gathering (qualified for worlds) & Fencing (3rd in NZ) and yes all 3 have a financial barrier to be competitive, but once you are over that you find hundreds (or more) of others who have purchased the same gear as you and then its about who can afford the time.
I guess thats a slight divergence from the point of the post, to which I agree with Lenny. Good Article I guess it got me thinking about things in a different line :)
There is a definite market for people who think buying a stick will put them a step closer to becoming Daigo. But Daigo plays 7-8 hours a day against others who play similar hours :) not many can afford to do that. Being a gifted wonder player might get you noticed and some sponsorship but thats pretty lucky for minority sports.
Yeah, the point is that you only GET sponsorship opportunities when there is a significant cost involved with getting the good gear. Otherwise there's no real point in it for the sponsors. Or particularly the competitor.
The only further cost for competition would be travel and accommodation.
Quote from: Smoofologist on October 16, 2009, 01:48:51 PM
. There are so many other elements to some of these things, especially as competitive FPS and paintball are team sports.
Bro how come they dont have individual FPS comps, it's easier to train for, am i the ONLY one that hates working in Teams. I never come 2nd on COD4 free for all, but in teams it's random , either beasting by shit loads or getting thrashed so bad it's not worth trying to come back. Maybe you just need a really close team so you's are like in sync or some shit.
Quote from: fluxcore on October 18, 2009, 07:46:45 PM
The only further cost for competition would be travel and accommodation.
In my experience these are the more important / desired.
Yes, but why would hotels or airlines sponsor a fighting gamer?
I'm trying to get people to think about WHY sponsors would sponsor us, or indeed anything.
Quote from: fluxcore on October 19, 2009, 08:24:18 AM
Yes, but why would hotels or airlines sponsor a fighting gamer?
I'm trying to get people to think about WHY sponsors would sponsor us, or indeed anything.
My quick wit and boyish good looks?
We need a fighting game sex symbol lol. Need one of you dudes to get abs and pose half nekked with a joystick on a billboard!
They likely wouldn't. But I wasn't meaning sponsorship directly from them, but other parties who could fund the flights / accomodation.
This could include charitable trusts & other organisations like Caversham, Cuesports, Lion etc granted these specific examples are more Sports oriented but there are lots out there all willing to offer grants etc if a good case can be presented.
For wargaming you mentioned (and MTG) I have seen sponsorship given to individuals from local stores to attend events in Aus.
For the fighting scene specifically, event based sponsorship from local stores & vendors is the best way. Meaningful sponsorhip for events will only happen if a very high turnout can be guaranteed, this will be difficult with the community fractured like it is with Tekken off doing its own thing.
Quote from: Lennysaurus Rex on October 19, 2009, 09:15:15 AM
Quote from: fluxcore on October 19, 2009, 08:24:18 AM
Yes, but why would hotels or airlines sponsor a fighting gamer?
I'm trying to get people to think about WHY sponsors would sponsor us, or indeed anything.
My quick wit and boyish good looks?
We need a fighting game sex symbol lol. Need one of you dudes to get abs and pose half nekked with a joystick on a billboard!
There's a job for Smoof
Quote from: weazzyefff on October 18, 2009, 07:55:27 PM
Quote from: Smoofologist on October 16, 2009, 01:48:51 PM
. There are so many other elements to some of these things, especially as competitive FPS and paintball are team sports.
Bro how come they dont have individual FPS comps, it's easier to train for, am i the ONLY one that hates working in Teams. I never come 2nd on COD4 free for all, but in teams it's random , either beasting by shit loads or getting thrashed so bad it's not worth trying to come back. Maybe you just need a really close team so you's are like in sync or some shit.
That's because you play with pubbies. If you ever do get it on PC, I'll hook you up with some privates and you can see how much cooler things are playing with a good team of sponsored players.
I think another problem is how niche our perhipherals are. If you're sponsored by steel series for example, an SS mouse could be used for RTS, MMORPG and FPS, whereas I'm not about to play CoD on my TE. Imo there won't be any money for sponsors in it until they either bring out a huge fighting game franchise like pokemon or there's some weird arcade revival. I think with gaming making it into the mainstream though, there might be hope.
And fuck you Mael, my one ab will dominate the competition.
Quote from: Lennysaurus Rex on October 19, 2009, 09:15:15 AM
Quote from: fluxcore on October 19, 2009, 08:24:18 AM
Yes, but why would hotels or airlines sponsor a fighting gamer?
I'm trying to get people to think about WHY sponsors would sponsor us, or indeed anything.
My quick wit and boyish good looks?
We need a fighting game sex symbol lol. Need one of you dudes to get abs and pose half nekked with a joystick on a billboard!
Say no more, i'll do it for the sake of the community. And i use to model for kelvin klein (sucker).