Another silly lag thread

[cha]

rofl, are these supposed to be sad movies
LP -> (enemy normal throw)
LP -> LP -> tatsu -> c. -> c. -> c. .... or f.MP ...
LP -> LP -> MISS! -> c.LK (HITS!) -> green hands

might sounds bitter from the 13th =)

seeing how I use a 1 week old new char in a fucking tourny obviously i was in for the participation and fun,
and indeed it was.

but its a pity that our tournys(same goes for the 2v2, especially the corner setup)
are overshadowed by lags, and its really bad this time, even slightly harder combos are missing,
nearly impossible to do just frame ones (yes my ibuki's ones =( )

i seriously think that the "casual" setup that day was superior hehe.

GG

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

To be honest, i dont think lag was the problem. I think the fact that there WASN'T any lag was the issue. Most of us are used to playing with some sort of delay (like on the casual setup. There IS lag on that setup. Noticable lag) so we were dropping combos on the lagless setup. (Like me and my RSF's)

This sounds stupid, but i genuinely find this to be the case when im using a VGA cable for example. And i KNOW that results in less lag.

The 2v2 was laggy as hell though. At least throws were techable at APAC.

[electric]

To be honest, i dont think lag was the problem. I think the fact that there WASN'T any lag was the issue. Most of us are used to playing with some sort of delay (like on the casual setup. There IS lag on that setup. Noticable lag) so we were dropping combos on the lagless setup. (Like me and my RSF's)

This sounds stupid, but i genuinely find this to be the case when im using a VGA cable for example. And i KNOW that results in less lag.

The 2v2 was laggy as hell though. At least throws were techable at APAC.

+1. Every time I've played on a set up that ISN'T my own, I drop every combo. I do tech more throws though, so that's indicative of either:

a) Increased concentration (hardly fucking likely with my brain)
b) Decreased input latency

Someone should convince my girlfriend that I need a new monitor, and then BUY me that monitor.

[zos'la]

proly right lol,

[HoneyBadger]

To be honest, i dont think lag was the problem. I think the fact that there WASN'T any lag was the issue. Most of us are used to playing with some sort of delay (like on the casual setup. There IS lag on that setup. Noticable lag) so we were dropping combos on the lagless setup. (Like me and my RSF's)

This sounds stupid, but i genuinely find this to be the case when im using a VGA cable for example. And i KNOW that results in less lag.

The 2v2 was laggy as hell though. At least throws were techable at APAC.

not complaining, just facts. I really didn't have any issues with the setups on the day.

First TV had lag, nowhere near as bad as the casual setups run on HDMI, but it did have some.

Second TV had minimal lag, but a fucked up ratio which could fuck with your spacing or w/e.

Also, unless your links are visually confirmed, lag shouldn't be an issue for combos.

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

A lot of mine are. While RSF is essentially rhythm, i do use visual cues to cancel the fierce into the run in order to actually get more than 2 hits in a lot of cases, given that half of RSF is distance anyway. But thats beside the point.

In theory, lag shouldn't be affecting your combos, but the fact of the matter is, unless you do your links with you eyes closed, lag fucks with your perception enough to make you miss things. Likewise, if youre used to watching shit lag, youre going to have trouble when the delay isn't there.

Some people might not notice it, others will. Particularly people that play on a slightly laggier setup most of the time.

[[8-----D] Toots]

Were gonna test the monitors on friday, find out how laggy they are and that will pretty much settle it.

[Cr8zyK1LL3r]

Sorry Bill but i have to disagree with you on this one. I noticed delay when I played Juri that day. When I used Ultra 1, I've never missed the overhead into combo (Yes, I'm always good at combo execution ^_^) But that day I missed A LOT due to delay. And I mean DELAY coz when I did overhead, my lk DIDN'T come out. Which means I input the command faster than it supposed to be.
I didn't believe it at first, so I tried it again (I was still in tournament matches) and this time I delayed it by 1-2 frames and it still didn't come out. Assume the setup had NO delay, my l.k would come out and the enemy would block it since I put delay on it. So after a few tries, I've figured out the machine had delay issue, I just couldn't be bother to tell anyone about that. But I guess many people who used 1-2 frame combo will notice it.

Now, same case for Cody's Ibuki, he did lk -> lp -> nothing which means he input the command a bit too fast instead of too slow. (too slow = lk -> lp -> block mid kick). It's a 1 frame link combo, same for Juri overhead -> l.k. And I remembered Kevin mentioned the same thing. After he played his first match at the tournament machine, he told me that: "I haven't played for a long time, I missed too many combos". Then when he had a few games at the casual set up, he said : "I like this machine more" !?!! and he could do combo on that one. He came back to the tournament machine, he missed again!?!! I guess it's not only me, Cody, Jack, Fong, Andy problem.

But to be honest, I don't think the delay effected the outcome that much. And every time when we play in a tournament, everyone complains about delay. I barely notice ANY DELAY when I use C.viper coz she has no 1-2 frame link combo and same for MANY other characters. To be honest, there shouldn't be any different If we don't go for COMBO type characters OR using 1-2 frame link combo. MOST of the combo we use in tournament are basics and we can always link them with reaction (2-4 frames at least). Kevin is the proof that delay doesn't matter much.

[fluxcore]

I noticed delay on all your mothers.

[fluxcore]

Also, I think you have it backwards, Hue.

For animation based combos:

Do a normal
'see' the normal recover
do the next normal

If there is input delay on the monitor, you will SEE the normal recover AFTER it has already recovered. Then you input your button at the correct time for the link, but the animation is further along than it actually should be, due to your input delay compensation.

Switch to a lagless monitor, and the move will get to the animation cue you're used to. You're pressing your button. Because the lagless monitor actually reflects reality, you've pressed the button too early. In other words, you've trained yourself to press the button too early because you're used to seeing the animation a few frames after it should be.

It might be useful to exaggerate the input delay problem for effect.

You press a button
10 seconds later the move starts animating
x frames after that the move finishes
You see the move finish, press the next button
It's 10 seconds too late for the link! The dude will block it!

To compensate and hit the link, you've got to press the second button BEFORE the animation even starts!

Now switch to a lagless setup

You press a button
instantly the move starts animating
You've already missed the animation-based timing you need to combo for the laggy setup, but if you were to go through with it, you'd be pressing the next button way too early.


In summary, if the setup has MORE input delay than you are used to, you should get more blocked links rather than links that don't come out. You guys are used to compensating for the input delay already, and switching to a monitor without it is messing you up.


And if the next argument is "but we're all used to the arcade timing and arcade is THE TRUTH!", I don't give a damn. Perhaps Yifan's setups have input lag!

[zos'la]

we can argue all day and not come to anything. Its personal preference, some use to delay some don't simple.

[fluxcore]

Hahah, no.

There's nothing to argue about when it comes to input lag. It is bad. It should not be there.

The fact that you guys bitch and moan on laggy monitors and then bitch and moan on lagless monitors is frankly hilarious, and also really annoying from an operational standpoint.

[electric]

Just because you are used to something, doesn't mean it's preferred.

Stick vs. Pad = preference
Lag vs. No Lag = you're either used to it or not

Lag = bad. That's all there is to it - just because I can beat anyone here on my ghetto as slanty pool table at home, doesn't mean I'm the best pool player here... it just means I've played on that ghetto ass pool table enough that I know how to play ONLY on that pool table.

[zos'la]

What the players want is preferred setup, eg for EVO.
You maybe playing on a lagless setup but what if it comes to EVO? you will fail yes. (example)
So the point I am trying to put forward is a STANDARD for our Tournaments.

Its annoying but it is something we need to address and standardize before any major events.

[stereomonkey]

Ummm, just wait till the test are done.  Until then BAU.