BBS12 DOA4 tournament videos

[Wugga]

Victory Fist vs. Midnight Spartan (losers bracket final) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewtbStv3_gc
Wugga vs. Victory Fist (grand final) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Zp6kc6N9I

[fluxcore]

You might want to specify which side is which player... I presume you were the Tina player in match 2?

Also, is there not much okizeme in DOA4? It seems really wierd to see the Spartan knock the opponent down, run up, and... wait?!?

--flux

[Wugga]

I believe I specified who was who in the text at the start of the video didn't I? Hmmm. Yeah, I was Tina... Tina's typically my main (though I'm working on developing my Bayman).
DOA4 has a ground game, but it's still a tad iffy - you can force a wake up with a couple of ground hits, but you have to appreciate the level that these players are at, getting into the ground game in DOA requires a bit more dedication than these players (probably me too) have put into the game. Once a player goes to ground, they either tech, or stay and go for a wake up kick, or stay and try a character specific move or just plain get up. The ground game really only comes into it if the attacker follows through and the downed player doesn't tech. The priority of the wake-up kicks and character specific moves probably have led my counterparts to be afraid of actually trying anything ground-game related and instead try for something safer, like waiting for the wakeup kick and attempting a reversal, or blocking. If you're talking about the 36 second mark during the second round, I'm not sure if Spartan had any safe options to deal to Hayabusa while he was on the ground - he (or she rather, depending if I'm talking about the player or the character) could have gone for the universal down attack but Hayabusa could have easily rolled and punished... maybe going for a low strike would've worked, but TBH I'm not sure if Spartan has the speed to actually make it guaranteed though. I think in this specific case he was looking for a mid wakeup kick, so he could get a guaranteed juggle... dude's been playing me too often. 

[Wugga]

You might want to specify which side is which player... I presume you were the Tina player in match 2?

Ohh, mother of crap, you're right... now the question is - can I be bothered changing it?

[Wugga]

Fixed. 

[fluxcore]

Fixed. 

NP...

The ground game thing just seems a bit strange. Most 3d fighters (Tekken in particular) have very strong okizeme, if you get knocked down you're fairly likely to eat some damage or come up in a sticky situation. Even most 2d fighters have the advantage weighted to the aggressor (KoF XI, MvC2 you definitely want to high/low mixup the downed opponent, or crossup). It's just a bit strange to see what looks like a follow up and then... nothing. I guess this is a bit why many fighting game players rubbish DOA, if attacking generally puts you in a worse position (reversals), then there's no real incentive to attack... SvC is particularly bad at this (Guard Cancel Front Step basically means 'you attack, you die').

If it's just a character specific thing, then I understand... and maybe I'm reading a bit too much into it (biased? Who knows)...

--flux

[Wugga]

I think it's just a continuing theme within DOA, the only surefire way for guaranteed damage is when you're hitting a launched opponent. In every other situation your opponent has choices despite the fact they're getting wailed on. Even if they're in a critical stun, they can choose whether to wait and go to ground (or maybe the attacker will whiff a throw, anticipating the options I'm about to mention), or they can attempt to slow escape out of the stun so they can block the remainder of hits, or they can attempt to turn the table with a defensive hold (reversal). It's a gamble which will pay off if you're in tune with your opponents style and characters capabilities. However if you just make this gamble carelessly, you'll probably end up eating a hi-counter throw and losing the majority of your life bar. Likewise, if the attacker isn't paying attention, or simply abusing some damaging string he memorised off the internet over and over, he's going to eat a reversal at some point in the string - so it's important for the attacker to have a variety of strings and to pay attention in case the opportunity to punish a lousy defensive hold attempt comes up.
I don't see it as a particularly bad ground game, just rather an explicit possibility for initiative to change hands when a character goes down. Also, I'd say that beyond button masher skill level (which those in the video barely are), the advantage is with the person on their feet, the fallen player has the option to either get up, eat some damage and be forced up anyway, or attempt a wakeup kick (which can easily end in a reversal). If they straight tech, the player already on their feet can press the attack, if they don't, well... yeah... if they wakeup with a kick or character specific wake up attack, there's every possibility that it'll be anticipated by a good player.
Basically, if you're looking to check out the ground game, that Spartan/Hayabusa video is definitely not a good example. 
If you check out the BBS10 final video, you'll see it a bit better with Baymans ground submission moves - I don't consider myself great at the DOA4 ground game, but I do a couple of ground submission moves (one of them a combo throw that gets escaped), and punish the crap out of him in the final round for abusing wakeup kicks.