Now it seems that NZ has two types of SF scenes that make up the community. Online and offline. And from there the online scene is divided by two consoles Xbox and PS3. Offline is divided by region with Auckland's Yifans regulars taking a break until Super is released on arcade.
It seems as far as competition goes NZ is quite isolated and only ever really comes into contact with Aussie players through the online scene. For the most part Oz seems to have better competition due to having simply more people. But do we have to let this hinder us?
If you think in terms of sporting events NZ has created world champions that are strides above other countries despite our small population. Additionally we have had creative innovators the same.
I want to hear peoples thoughts on the impression of the attitude of the New Zealand Street Fighter scene. Specifically any thoughts on the habits or practices that help or harm us.
Does the small population really doom us? Are we too merciful to our fellow Street Fighter players thus stunting our growth? Does the NZ Tall Poppy complex affect the SF community?
How is offline or online affecting the quality of our players. Is there any inherent advantage we have over other countries that we may or may not utilize? And does anyone actually even believe that we could grow a world champion SF player?
Thoughts?
As long as the top players involve themselves in the scene, the rest will learn from them and also get better. Getting top players is the tricky part, basically only when we get the odd beast from somewhere in Asia do we actually meet reasonable-quality competition. And then involving them? Other than at tourneys? No idea.
If you want an obvious example of how difficult it is to have a scene here, just look at the difference between America and Japan and examine the reasons why. We're like a tiny version of America, small pockets of people fairly isolated. Even with the 'great uniter' SF4.
Online is good imo, even with netcode being only OK. You can still utilise most of the game fine. Also it actually makes playing possible forsome people (i.e. ME). I really don't like the split between 360 and PSN though, that pretty much halves our online opposition right off the bat.
I don't think the situation is impossible, otherwise I'd never have bothered with this site, but the odds are very heavily stacked against us.
My first job ever was working for Time Out Milford and my second job was working for stages timeout when I was like 16.....every weekend there was a different competition running with massive support from the arcade......keeping in mind this was like pre online and net cafes......I think playing under pressure is best learnt playing at the arcade, with people watching and your opponent sitting right next to you.....a good champ needs to play well in all conditions but actual arcade battles are where it's at in my opinion.....pitty that so few arcades (if any) support and/or run their own comps anymore....
I'm personally stoked with the organisational talents of the peeps on this website...nothing like this ever exisited when I was younger and I think the level of play has really lifted......I guess training younger players and passing knowledge down will grow tomorrows talent......
Onlines pretty awesome, just wish I could play PSN network peeps and also play talent further away than Oz......
As far as a world champ.....hell Jack's pretty talented for a young fulla, let's get him a sponsor and send him overseas to get some experience in international comps.....I think the only way to become truly great is to do it non-stop all day everyday just like a top level player in any sport.......too bad things like work and commitment get in the way.......only wish this country had a larger population and more industry ($$$$$) for sponsoring young talent.....
Great posts Simon, Alan and Gene.
I really agree with what Alan mentioned about NZ being a smaller version of the Us scene, being split either geographically or by console being a
particular hinderance towards myself in particular feeling the identity of the community, in fact it was only at the nationals last year when I really felt what if could be..
I sometimes feel like I'm really limited in getting as good as the players I admire from our scene (Hue, Andy, Kevin, Jack and Fong in particular), because of these obstacles above in addition to limited time to attend events, my crappy internet at the moment and general life things all of which make it hard to keep up with even the players just starting out.
I've always felt we've got the potential to be every bit as good as the players we look up to for inspiration, be it from the local scene (here's looking at Hue and Jack) and from other aussie, such as Brodsta, Benson, Wing and even the beasts themselves from further abroad Wong and Daigo.
I'd love to hear in particular from Hue and Andy, Jack and Fong to see what steps they can recommend for players such as myself to help get to their level of competition, I'm more than happy to take advice or be tutored by any of the above guys in order to improve, and then to pass on that knowledge to new comers as they move into the scene.
I also want to fully apologise openly for my dickhead attitiude towards other players in the scene in the past, especially Hue & Andy. I fully regret the tack I had taken with you both, and want to say that you guys really are role models for me now, in the way that you're beasts and you're really pushing the skill of the local scene into new heights of competition. I'd really love the chance to learn from you both when you're online again, that is if you're happy, and patient enough, to teach this old dog some new tricks.
Catch you all online, and hopefully offline whenever it can be arranged.
Yeah, basically while the console split is an annoyance for other regions, it's damn near a killer for us. Of course some people here think they are too good for online anyway.
I think it is more the online is not good enough for the player imo.
Uh huh
edit: k, put it this way. BECAUSE of other things mentioned in this thread, we need to take advantage of every possible resource we have. We know the online isn't amazing. And yet plenty of other, BETTER players in other places still use it.
Quote from: hydrokinesis on May 24, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
Great posts Simon, Alan and Gene.
I really agree with what Alan mentioned about NZ being a smaller version of the Us scene, being split either geographically or by console being a
particular hinderance towards myself in particular feeling the identity of the community, in fact it was only at the nationals last year when I really felt what if could be..
I sometimes feel like I'm really limited in getting as good as the players I admire from our scene (Hue, Andy, Kevin, Jack and Fong in particular), because of these obstacles above in addition to limited time to attend events, my crappy internet at the moment and general life things all of which make it hard to keep up with even the players just starting out.
I've always felt we've got the potential to be every bit as good as the players we look up to for inspiration, be it from the local scene (here's looking at Hue and Jack) and from other aussie, such as Brodsta, Benson, Wing and even the beasts themselves from further abroad Wong and Daigo.
I'd love to hear in particular from Hue and Andy, Jack and Fong to see what steps they can recommend for players such as myself to help get to their level of competition, I'm more than happy to take advice or be tutored by any of the above guys in order to improve, and then to pass on that knowledge to new comers as they move into the scene.
I also want to fully apologise openly for my dickhead attitiude towards other players in the scene in the past, especially Hue & Andy. I fully regret the tack I had taken with you both, and want to say that you guys really are role models for me now, in the way that you're beasts and you're really pushing the skill of the local scene into new heights of competition. I'd really love the chance to learn from you both when you're online again, that is if you're happy, and patient enough, to teach this old dog some new tricks.
Catch you all online, and hopefully offline whenever it can be arranged.
Hey Hydro,
Longtime no see dude.....hows things? :D
Speaking of the scene here....we guna be seeing you at the nationals??
I wana see what character(s) you've picked up for super...... :P
It depends on what you are trying achieve in your SF scene.
To develop players that could complete at SBO lvl? or grow the community and hve more regular/bigger events? in theory, both could happen at the same time but it does not have to.
Tbh, I dont believe we could develop a world champ, nothing is impossible but it is not far from it. Looking at US from apparence, such a hype community, lots of events, lots of players, and I believe some of those people are starting to become full time event organiser to make a living out of fighting games (should be plenty of existing ones for PC games) and perhaps from playing the game. And yet, there is still a gap between them and Japan in terms of skills.
My guess would be, US is a relatively online community, they hve big events tat ppl gather and play but as ppl walk out the door, they are back to playing online with randoms or a small grp of friends(Lobby system in SSF4 has improved this). Which is similar to us imo, join a game lobby-> pick a character-> beat each other out-> win or lose, "ggs bro"-> quit, call it a day-> make a GG post on forum. Although Mic and Forum have helped a lot, but there isnt really much interaction between players, at least not as much as playing side by side, where u can ask really simple but yet useful questions that comes to mind, eg, A:why does your LP always out poke my C.LK? B:I have faster startup+range, u need to use standing LP instead. OR A:Why do I eat tat combo all the time? B:U need to block high then low on the opposite other side.
Sure, we can do offline events, SSF4 Jam at somebody's pad, ranbat etc those are fantasic for lvling up the community. But it is still far from like being in a arcade heavy asia city that you could walk into one of the big famous arcade, any day when you are free and expect to play different but yet good players every time, so the mix of skills you could pick up is very board due to the amount of different players you bump into.
But do we really need to create a world champ? probably not and I do not think we need to. It will be great if it comes as a by product but I think we should try grow the community with more casual games and structure tournaments that ppl could enjoy(more setup for casuals so most ppl could still enjoy the day if they run into Jack on Winners rd1 and then devilstar in the losers rd 1. Perhaps BYO setup like a Lan party, similar to xlan?).
I think its harder to create a world lvl player in SF in NZ than a sport. Most sports has been ard for long enough for most techique to be discovered and it isnt going to change any time soon either, like Golf, rowing, archery etc, plus some of these things u dont even need a opponent to play with.
Surely, we have some talent around, e.g Jack is young and full of skills, but i mean, even if the funding was there for ppl, can they really take time off school/work to fly to events at a very regular basis just for SF? Not really, reality will smack you in the face, at least for something like Golf there is potentially a much greater reward. As for SF/arcade gaming, there isnt really much hope for in a short future. If you are in Japan or something tats a different story, u can jst drop by Big Box or soemthing every 2nd day after school for 2 hrs, and you dont really hve to give up on anything.
Dunno wat the hell i typed, jst wanted to burn time at work haha
Anyway, i think we should focus on bringing in new ppl into the scene and jst grow it to have better and regular events. Which i know it's very diffcult and people are doing a great job already.
Some brief comments to the OP while I'm eating :D
- The online communities should be used as a funnel to get more people into the offline scene
- I think most people who play sf4 at Yifans know about this site, maybe trying to sneak a nzism sticker on the cab would help :p
- More people = more competition, it's quite simple. The only way to get around that would be to have ~10-20 people playing for 5-8 hours a day all the time against each other, and thats unrealistic, and even then, only those people will be getting drastically better. It sounds as if some of our players do play against OZ top players online, which helps bridge the gap and give us an idea of where we stand overall
- Innovation and real athletisism are completely different to a computer game, you can't compare them
- I think there are some individual personalities that clash, but overall I think the community has the right attitude
- Ranbats + gatherings at fong's and graeme's place help heaps! (thanks guys)
- I think at the end of the day, our small population means that a NZ player won't be able to claim "world best SF player", unless we send the winner of the nationals to japan for a years training, all expenses paid.
That final comment seems rather negative, but based on my experience with FPS games several years back, I don't see an even smaller community than the old QW/Q3 communities producing a player that is "world class".
Quote from: Pjai on May 24, 2010, 12:58:56 PM
Anyway, i think we should focus on bringing in new ppl into the scene and jst grow it
Totally agree.
Quote from: Pjai on May 24, 2010, 12:58:56 PM
Surely, we have some talent around, e.g Jack is young and full of skills, but i mean, even if the funding was there for ppl, can they really take time off school/work to fly to events at a very regular basis just for SF? Not really, reality will smack you in the face, at least for something like Golf there is potentially a much greater reward. As for SF/arcade gaming, there isnt really much hope for in a short future. If you are in Japan or something tats a different story, u can jst drop by Big Box or soemthing every 2nd day after school for 2 hrs, and you dont really hve to give up on anything.
Dunno wat the hell i typed, jst wanted to burn time at work haha
Anyway, i think we should focus on bringing in new ppl into the scene and jst grow it to have better and regular events. Which i know it's very diffcult and people are doing a great job already.
By saying that dude I meant that a pro gamer would drop all commitments and concentrate soley on being a gamer pro.....if JWong and Daigo can live off it why can't someone from NZ if they put as much effort into it, if they enter and place well?
My advice would be to anyone - do to find what you enjoy and pour all your energy and effort into it...no matter what it is - thats the difference from being a casual player and a pro.....if anyone wanted to become a pro at anything that type of thought is required. Theres potential in anything if you make it happen.
I'm not saying that jack should give up school and run off to the states :-\ - I was just using him as an example, do it while your young was the point I was trying to make. ;)
And I agree - more peeps in the scene the better, frequent events, more variation of play style more opponents, higher level of competition and ultimately a higher level of overall skill for all involved.....
I think that that isn't entirely the case anymore. I can't think of one person that is actively playing SSFIV atm, and who has it on console, that isn't playing online atm.
Although it would be nice for them to use some slightly better netcode.
I try not to take my matches too seriously online anymore. I just have fun and try stuff out.
On the scene. I think that we are doing well, and I think we are entering another period of growth. We need to run more events though imo. Also i think when the next gen of consoles drop, we should all agree on which one we are gonna use as standard and try and get as many people onto that one as possible.
Next console gen is going to be quite a way off... not that that's a bad thing.
Well, Daigo couldnt make a living out of SF.. he works as a full time male nurse. He only recently been sponsered by Madcatz, so i dunno wats going on there and there is so far there as only been one Daigo "The Beast" Umehara".
Anyway, the pt i was trying to make, is dont get too fussy abt how gd we stand in the world and develop god like players but jst lure more ppl into the scene, grow the community and we can all hve fun together in a sustainable ($wise) and regular events.
Quote from: Rorooze on May 24, 2010, 01:01:34 PM
Some brief comments to the OP while I'm eating :D
- The online communities should be used as a funnel to get more people into the offline scene
- I think most people who play sf4 at Yifans know about this site, maybe trying to sneak a nzism sticker on the cab would help :p
- More people = more competition, it's quite simple. The only way to get around that would be to have ~10-20 people playing for 5-8 hours a day all the time against each other, and thats unrealistic, and even then, only those people will be getting drastically better. It sounds as if some of our players do play against OZ top players online, which helps bridge the gap and give us an idea of where we stand overall
- Innovation and real athletisism are completely different to a computer game, you can't compare them
- I think there are some individual personalities that clash, but overall I think the community has the right attitude
- Ranbats + gatherings at fong's and graeme's place help heaps! (thanks guys)
- I think at the end of the day, our small population means that a NZ player won't be able to claim "world best SF player", unless we send the winner of the nationals to japan for a years training, all expenses paid.
That final comment seems rather negative, but based on my experience with FPS games several years back, I don't see an even smaller community than the old QW/Q3 communities producing a player that is "world class".
I agree with all of your points excpet one;
"- Innovation and real athletisism are completely different to a computer game, you can't compare them"
I think with sport there is of course athletisism, but without focus, drive and a game plan you can't rely simply on athletisism........your head has to be in the game
You don't have to be Arnie to be a good gamer with muscles coming out of your muscles but you do need focus, drive, a game plan and tenacity - so I think this can also be compared with an top level athlete...... :)
Quote from: The Lenny 2.0 on May 24, 2010, 01:22:57 PM
I try not to take my matches too seriously online anymore. I just have fun and try stuff out.
That's interesting as I wonder how people treat the offline vs online thing. In a way I find the tightness of the community can sometimes limit it as it almost turns into Street Fighter Club. I'm not too sure though if this was the entire point.
I think Yifans was a great place to build a community. It had regulars that attended and fought but there was no pressure of a social aspect. I hope that Yifans will stay open long enough to have an offline option for players that want offline competition without the social aspect. I know a few of our best SF players in the past are introverts also so this issue of offline play with a mandatory social aspect can divide the scene even more. This can sometimes be something extraverts find hard to understand and I hope nobody takes it personally.
I think I agree with most people have said about the NZ scene. I think online has really helped bridge the gap for getting people to become part of the community. And games like Super with Endless battles have only made things even better.
Also agree with all the issues we face too. With the population, lack of arcades, scene split between Xbox, PS3, PC.
Going to nationals last year really opened my eyes and inspired me to work harder and give me the inspiration to want a strong base of players to play from a local scene. I was lucky and am grateful that Smoof and Grahame offered me places to stay for nationals. And Alan was keen to catch up with Vanilla's release while I was working in Hamilton. It really shows you how helping out your fellow players can really have an impact to them as players and community members as well.
That's why I recommend making the effort to go to Nationals this year and see for yourself what great things this community can do when it pulls it's talents and resources together. Especially if you live outside Auckland. It'll give you a much better idea of what's going on and how you rate as a player.
As of our local scene here in CHCH it's better than ever! It's still very young but hopefully the momentum will continue. I was actually thinking about writing an article/blog of how our scene has grown so fast to hopefully inspire players from other small cities to use the resources and players around them to help make their own scene.
As for getting better and taking on the world competitively. Sure it would be awesome to one of our community members take out Evo or even more unlikely SBO. I agree with alot of the points that our numbers and various other factors don't help.
Definitely our focus should be finding new players and hopefully inspiring them and leveling them up. Who knows what hidden talent is out there hungry to be part of the scene. There are people out there in NZ playing this game with their friends that don't even know what an NZism is. Nzism fliers in each brand new copy of MvC3 please monaco ;)
Just had a meeting with a rep from Game Console....I mentioned NZism to him and I received an email a few hours ago from LegDog that Lenny and Flux helped with content for their latest mag which had an article on SSF4.....which I'll read afer this post ;)
LegDog said he is keen as to work with NZISM in the future......maybe hyping the nationals with an edditorial?? If NZISM wanted to go public and open ourselves up to new members, sponsors etc...this could be a good way forward in terms of growth....Flux, Lenny your thoughts????
---------------------
I see what your saying Mobius......apparently there is a free online tournament mode download coming next month -maybe you can represent at a tournament event while playing from home.....have the best of both worlds...... ;)
Some good comments allround.
Thank god for online or the community wouldn't exist at all for me (not that i'm on much anyway).
I hope to see lots of mini online tournaments once the new SSF4 patch hits - no reason why there couldn't be a weekly NZISM online event - PS3ver & 360 ver. We could almost get an online league going.
Anybody truly wanting to take their game to an international level will have to do alot of self funding (sucks but sponsorship is very hard to get) & get them selves overseas to Aus, Japan etc.
They should also own both PS3 & 360, which when you think about is not very expensive - almost the same as a another stick.
The EVO qualifiers were a nice first, hopefully we see more such events in the future. Can't wait to see how Devilstar goes in the next round.
And thank god for this site!
Well I’m off to the Gold Coast for good in mid June so I just wanted to say a quick thanks to the NZISM community for being here and a special mention to the following people.
Hydro â€" James. As a noob to the scene you were particularly helpful and I really see you as a good guide and welcoming figure. You were always willing to give me advice and tips which helped me to develop my Honda game. You were also most welcoming at the nationals last year â€" tbh I thought you were black hahaha it wasn’t till I met you at the nats I was like fuck â€" I never would have picked it. You are the man! Big ups to you brother â€" thanks for your support! It’s been good to see you making your way back into the scene man â€" guess it’s like one of those movies where the fighter goes away for a few months in the wilderness and then becomes one with himself and comes back stronger, faster and wiser lol.
I’d like to thank Cpt Munta also for being the energetic and enthusiastic southside dude that you are. It was obvious when I met you at the Nats that you had truckloads of love for the game and anyone that played it and this has really been the driving force behind the success of the Chch scene that we see today. It wasn’t long ago that you would always say something along the lines of “I wish there was a scene in Chch†and now days you guys are in full swing with regular meet ups and comps and stuff â€" hats off to you my friend â€" as a fellow family man I know it’s a balancing act.
Thank you to Lennysaurus. It was your place that I had my first NZISM get together. It was funny cause it was my first one and I knew no one that was there. Shit I felt like a real gaming geek that first time â€" I was like WTF I am going to a complete stranger’s house to meet other complete strangers and play SF4. I actually almost backed out cause no one was answering the fucken front door so I had to bang on the garage roller door lol. Once I got in it was sweet though â€" that night I met Weazzy, Mike, Fong, Jack, Smoof and Ben as well as yourself â€" cant remember the other dudes that were there but it was a good night.
Shout outs to the bro Brad Akuma1 for putting up your pad for the casuals those times and also for the regular off line random jams. Been great to meet you and Kenny - laughing back at the days we had those Hyper battles at your place - big screen and your namco sticks - that was a mean jam back at your Halsey Road house. Shot G.
Big ups to Weazzy, Geneterror, iMagneto, CrazyM, Hue, Akuma1, KaosNZ Karizzma and Electric. You boys definitely helped me to hone my skills especially in the early days. Against most of you I would be like yes I got a win and I’m just talking about single rounds here niggaz! Mind you these days it can still be the same in some cases not naming any names lol. It’s been a pleasure learning from you guys!
Cant go without mentioning some of the x-box boys Blackstar, X-Punch, Iron-Sol, Mason, ill-Bill â€" would have like to have played more against you guys but was always good to meet up at the various bashes. Cheers to iron-sol as well for showing me more Honda tips and tricks and reppin the Honda army. (What happened to that other Matt Honda player?)
Thanks and acknowledgements to Lenny, Flux, Stereo and Andy for taking a leadership role for the NZism community â€" be keen to see Hydro up here again. It is appreciated and without you guys leading from the front we pretty much wouldn’t have much I would say. Keep it going boys â€" you do a great job!
Lastly thanks to Skullator, Manawakore, ColdFire, PJai, EricsonAU, Ashureii repping the PSN network crew. Been great to meet you guys and jam when we do.
Anway just wanted to say a big thanks to the community and if I can offer any advice it would be to really target the new players that are being added to the username lists. There has been some awesome growth on both lists since SSF4 dropped and if we can get in quick and target these dudes to come out of the woodwork and get involved in the meet ups then the community will continue to grow as it has. Also when they do come along we all need to make them feel welcome â€" for the regulars it’s pretty obvious to spot the first timers so it’s up to us to pop over introduce ourselves and introduce them to everyone else to make them feel at home. We could even buddy them up with one of our senior players who mains the same character as them as a way to help them level up.
Thats enough from me for now - once again thanks everyone for the GG's, Good laughs and comradery.
;D
Shot bro thanks for all the casuals we had at bradz, was good to meet you for the first time at the nationals last year, as we were both pad players from diff consoles, there was a bit of a clash and that was the clash i was hoping to avoid during the comp lol,so the big Lenny hit us with the "you guys gotta STICK it out" ;D and man that was a bit of a challenge for me and i was on panic mode the whole time ::).
Its sad to hear about your depature and i wish you all the best. But dont forget that us south Aux Boiz will be waiting for you to remember that theres no place like home ;D
And wheres the invites to the BIG going away party aye bro? hahaha SSF4 styles
Coffin, was really rad to meet you bro. Make sure you still hit us up for challenges online and still join the nzism chat room bro. Also keep us up to date with your Honda antics in the gold coast. It really has been amazing watching you grow as a player man.
Have a good time in the sunny gold coast man. Will hit you up for Honda
mirrors if I'm ever in your neck of the woods.
good luck to you coffin.
Great player and always try to help the community where you can.
Safe trip and hope to see you around still.
Good stuff dude. At least with online the Oz connection is just as good as NZ. Dosssuukkoooi!
Also, back on topic.
Now that you guys have been over to aussie and seen how the community is over there, how do you think their community compared to ours (excluding their setups, lol)? Do you think we are far off going to their nationals and taking the top honours? I imagine the bigger player base over really helps with practising various match ups etc? (Especially after seeing you guys vs blanka D:)
Quote from: Rorooze on June 08, 2010, 07:24:46 PM
Also, back on topic.
Now that you guys have been over to aussie and seen how the community is over there, how do you think their community compared to ours (excluding their setups, lol)? Do you think we are far off going to their nationals and taking the top honours? I imagine the bigger player base over really helps with practising various match ups etc? (Especially after seeing you guys vs blanka D:)
Yeah outside of Gino who else mains Blanka? I think we have at least 3 guys pick him up and main him down here. Maybe that was a contributing factor from having a smaller player base.
But I have to say you guys all making it through to the end and Gankatron making top 8 was pretty inspriational. I told a couple of guys at mashup and they were really stoked.
I think no the whole though we do play a wide spread of the cast from loomie's gen, Bill's fuerte, imags bison, nicks Rufus, redties vega, kevins godlike gief etc etc.....
It was cool to see guys from my psn list doing well. Guys I go toe to toe with or get owned by. Might be stretching it a tad but it does kind of hint at were you imagine stacking up against oz ;)
Gino hasn't mained blanka for ages, he pussied out and switched to Zangief... and then Akuma!
Quote from: fluxcore on June 08, 2010, 07:55:32 PM
Gino hasn't mained blanka for ages, he pussied out and switched to Zangief... and then Akuma!
whaaaT?! No rematch?!
Andrew aka propafanda's blanka is pretty good, redtie, Nick4now and rafitiy are pretty good with him too.
Was that the only curveball you guys faced? Any other strange matchups?
Sounds like dhalsim, in the team tourney...
Lol gave you a game last night CoffinDrop1 and CrazyMobius - was good to play you guys hope you have noticed the difference on my skills :P
Looking for more games tonight, feel free to add me PSN: inoxx10
nox? from wellington?
Nah mate, wrong noxx i'm inoxx :P
from Auckland btw haha ^^
Good to see you here mate. Will accept your friend request tonight and hopefully get some games in with you.
For some reason I can't find much time to get on weeknights lately but I'm on a lot over the weekend.
Quote from: geneterror on June 10, 2010, 10:51:12 AM
Good to see you here mate. Will accept your friend request tonight and hopefully get some games in with you.
For some reason I can't find much time to get on weeknights lately but I'm on a lot over the weekend.
Haha all good bro, but yep if your able to get on tonight give you a challenge :]
Sup Geneterror, I moved into your hood bro....be keen for a few games in the weekend if your up for it, Budas just around the corner too.......
Holla if you're free....hadoukens are there for those who are hungry for them
My thoughts on the Street Fighter scene...
Takes too many potential players away from Blazblue :P
... Do you play at yifans?
Quote from: OLEET on June 27, 2010, 12:39:40 AM
... Do you play at yifans?
Who, me?
Yeah I do but I've moved onto CS and I'm kinda just waiting for arcades to get that in.
Quote from: hydrokinesis on May 24, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
I sometimes feel like I'm really limited in getting as good as the players I admire from our scene (Hue, Andy, Kevin, Jack and Fong in particular), because of these obstacles above in addition to limited time to attend events, my crappy internet at the moment and general life things all of which make it hard to keep up with even the players just starting out.
I've always felt we've got the potential to be every bit as good as the players we look up to for inspiration, be it from the local scene (here's looking at Hue and Jack) and from other aussie, such as Brodsta, Benson, Wing and even the beasts themselves from further abroad Wong and Daigo.
I'd love to hear in particular from Hue and Andy, Jack and Fong to see what steps they can recommend for players such as myself to help get to their level of competition, I'm more than happy to take advice or be tutored by any of the above guys in order to improve, and then to pass on that knowledge to new comers as they move into the scene.
In my opinion, playing offline is the best option for learning/improving. Online is good to kill times but if we want to improve from online games, It will consume too much time compare to offline. 1 good thing about online is that we can learn different match-ups and test out new tricks on players. But it will effect our strategies and game-play overall because online = no risks, people tend to throw out many random/risky moves (for example, myself when i play online) and even if we try not to do it, the opponent might not think the same and throw out random things. So doesn't matter if we win or lose the match, we won't be able to learn much compare to offline by the end of the day.
I think Yifans is a great offline place to play, even better than giga imo. It's true that not everyone of us can spend $20/day just for gaming. And trust me I know exactly how it feels. 2 years ago, when my older brother still in NZ, my allowance was only $100/week including food. so If i spend $10/day on dinner that will leave $30/week which is even less than $5/day for me to play. But because of that, I tend to improve a bit faster than other players. When i play at giga, I feel like there's nothing to lose and I don't concentrate as much and even if i try to concentrate, it just doesn't work or it only work for a short while. While at yifans, my concentration could last up to 3 hours.
I notice when we play at yifans, it feels like every games is a money match, even the bet is small, we have many different reasons to try our best to win the game. For me, the reason is that I don't like waiting. If I lose, someone else will take my place and I have to queue up again to get my revenge and sometimes, I couldn't even get my revenge coz Cody, Andy, Simon finish them off before i get to play them :P. And another reason was the short allowance but that problem is solved now ;D
From my experience, players from Yifans such as Simon, Kevin, Cody, Andy could improve faster than other players because they have to win the game when they play, not just for fun. And the best way to remind ourselves that we have to win the match is betting small money (e.g Yifans $1-2/game). I'm not sure if that how it works for everyone else but I'm pretty sure that is one of the most important factor for me to improve. If i can figure out something else other than that, I will make another post.
For now, there's nothing much we can do until the Yifans scene is back with SSF4. Once SSF4 is released, I highly recommend everyone to go there and try to pick up small mistakes from their gameplays.
I totally agree that Yifans is the best place to level up. It helps build not only winning tactics so you don't have to pay/wait but you also learn to deal with pressure and crowds. After a while you can even feed off the crowd to help you win. I feel I am losing my pressure skills a bit now with the lack of arcade play and am certain that it helped me out in the tournament last year.
Quote from: CrazyMobius on June 27, 2010, 11:08:58 PM
I totally agree that Yifans is the best place to level up. It helps build not only winning tactics so you don't have to pay/wait but you also learn to deal with pressure and crowds. After a while you can even feed off the crowd to help you win. I feel I am losing my pressure skills a bit now with the lack of arcade play and am certain that it helped me out in the tournament last year.
dw bro I'll just sit behind you every time you play from now on ahahahaha
I agree with Hue and yes its prolly the $1-$2 that makes most of teh arcade players play at their best most of the time. After every lost you think carefully and try againt, don't rush into the putting in money mode I would have tio say... give other people a go, watch teh match, revise ur lost and try to figure out new tactics and ways to play. If all fails go home and watch some vids^^ and come back and try more. That is how I imporved myself.
Crazymobious,
I feel you and James have somehow stop being competivie? maybe thats not the word to use here... But you both can be a great player if you carry on playing at the lvl you were in back in yifans time when we first met, so keep it up and don't let the boxers scare you away if you think u can not touch them.. they can be beated, just takes time and experience. But when you do you will realize ur gameplay have grown far beyond what you expected.
Moral of the story, don't give up just because of minor obstacles, because its all part of the learning and growing process of being a better player.
Quote from: zosla on June 28, 2010, 08:17:15 AM
Crazymobious,
I feel you and James have somehow stop being competivie? maybe thats not the word to use here... But you both can be a great player if you carry on playing at the lvl you were in back in yifans time when we first met, so keep it up and don't let the boxers scare you away if you think u can not touch them.. they can be beated, just takes time and experience. But when you do you will realize ur gameplay have grown far beyond what you expected.
I think it really made a difference having the opportunity to play the top players every week. And in a sense being able to keep up because we were able to see the improvements being made by the others and that forced us to have to improve. But now I really don't know how well others are doing and so it's hard to gauge how much I need to improve. It also doesn't help with so many low level players online.
However I saw that the Super sf4 arcade version is being released soon. That will be good for us AND for Yifans who must be waiting for another $$ injection.
Thats right,
for me is not to gauge how well the players has improved... but to supass them no matter what level that have gone up to.
We all stoppped playing at Yifans about the same time, but I have not once let my guard down to imrpove, I always tell myself that I need more and more, so when it comes, I will be able to perform well no matter how strong the opponent is and how much they have improved as I would have imporved more than they have expected.
Quote from: zosla on June 28, 2010, 08:17:15 AM
I feel you and James have somehow stop being competivie? maybe thats not the word to use here... But you both can be a great player if you carry on playing at the lvl you were in back in yifans time when we first met, so keep it up and don't let the boxers scare you away if you think u can not touch them.. they can be beated, just takes time and experience. But when you do you will realize ur gameplay have grown far beyond what you expected.
I honestly feel like I'm more competitive now then where I was over a year ago. I play hours each day, mostly online I know, but I strive to fight the toughest opponents I can whenever I'm on. I'm pretty much only on my Aus account now as the number of players is huge and the competition is incredibly varied. I play ranked almost exclusively as I've found it best simulates the 'risk' factor of the arcade (points to loose) as well as the competitiveness. My focus definitely shifted towards becoming a lot better as a player once you Jack and Fong had great results at Evo Apac, you guys showed me that the levels you've reached are very attainable, and closer than I imagined as someone who was becoming more and more disenfranchised with the community in general.
Needless to say my passion and enthusiasm towards the NZ scene has done a full reversal since then, I'm fully ready to claim a spot as one of our top players, and my personal goal is to be part of the elite team we're sending to next years Aus events should (we choose to attend).
Also:
My poor competitive showing at the 3V3 is only related to the set up on the day, otherwise I'm sure both myself and my team would have placed much higher, no disrespect to those we faced, but things simply not coming out when inputted sure put the shitter on my pokes strings/combos etc on the day. Funnily enough on the other set up I hit everything as usual, no input mysteriously gobbled up for no reason, yes it was a little laggy, but at least all the moves came out came out when I pushed a button. . . more explanation of how things just didn't come out on the main set up would be nice to hear.
In all fairness James, and i mean absolutely no disrespect here, but EVERYONE was dropping stuff. Maybe you would have placed higher, but what youre complaining about was something that affected every single person that played it on saturday, so realistically, saying that really doesnt mean anything.
Its like if Lenny said "I would have beaten Fong if i had been used to the setup". Fong could just as easily say "I would have beaten Lenny more convincingly if I had been used to the setup." (Sorry to use you two as my example. As i know neither of you would actually say this) The argument goes both ways, so its a moot point imo.
Quote from: ILL_BILL on June 28, 2010, 06:08:04 PM
Its like if Lenny said "I would have beaten Fong if i had been used to the setup". Fong could just as easily say "I would have beaten Lenny more convincingly if I had been used to the setup." (Sorry to use you two as my example. As i know neither of you would actually say this) The argument goes both ways, so its a moot point imo.
Fuck that scrub. I was just taking pity on him.
Man you see the shit Sako was pulling off online at Gods Garden?
ONLINE!!!
No excuses for me after that shit! But then again you should try playing gee fucking krunktizzeled it's hard as fuck to do shit.
Online is allgood to practice just stay away from scrubs cos your not doing yourself any favors. I lost heaps of my good Aus dudes cos i didn't login for a couple of months and they must have delted me. The Aus in four bar seems shit now that we get green bars with N.Z folks.
So i reckon that all the good N.Z folks on psn should jump online, it's all geez to practice on. The only thing i get fucked off with is all the fairly useless peeps aka noobs.
Japanese and Korean internet make playing online almost like playing over a lan. When I played games online in Japan getting an MS of 5-10 was considered standard for connecting to another server in the same city. Korea is the same case where people consider shit like 100 ms unplayable. You really can't compare New Zealand to most other nations when it comes to internet, especially not beasts like Korea or Japan.
Quote from: OLEET on June 28, 2010, 09:11:21 PM
Japanese and Korean internet make playing online almost like playing over a lan. When I played games online in Japan getting an MS of 5-10 was considered standard for connecting to another server in the same city. Korea is the same case where people consider shit like 100 ms unplayable. You really can't compare New Zealand to most other nations when it comes to internet, especially not beasts like Korea or Japan.
Dem azns make me green with envy
Oh true.... I just thought green bars was green bars. Yeah well green bars in N.Z is still allgood for me.
My combo's are pretty much the same with green bars as they are offline and i use a bit of visual and timing cues.
Also, to explain the inputs mysteriously vanishing, its fairly simple.
On a laggy setup, lets say you see a throw coming, and tech it. Great. On a setup with no lag, if youre used to a laggy setup, you will see the throw coming but you will push tech based on what you're used to (which is lag in this case). In order to tech the throw on a laggy setup, your tech needs to be done earlier to compensate for the lag.
When there is no lag, there is no need for this compensation, so essentially, since you are still subconsciously attempting to compensate for lag, what you end up doing is inputting your tech too early. On a lagless setup, the pre-emptivity is unnecessary, meaning that you can base a lot more on your reactions, rather than predicting stuff in advance. (Which is why you want as little lag as possible. So you can react to stuff better.) On a setup with no lag, since you are operating at a pre-emptive speed that is appropriate for a LAGGY setup, you quite simply hit the buttons too early, and it appears that you have 'lost' your input. The same can be said for your combos. Particularly hit confirms, since this is done visually.
The interesting thing is that it actually goes to show just how much of your combo game is based off of visual cues rather than rhythm. Odds are, if everyone was playing blindfolded, we probably wouldn't have dropped any combo inputs at all.
god sing a song!!!!
just get use to the setup.
it took me freakign 4 games -.- and yes i wanted to punch teh bloody setup HAHAHAHA.
but whatever it is past now so look forward :)
ill show u guys no matter what teh setup is ill blow u away!!!!
peace G
Make it sound like people are specifically trying to find setups that are bad for you in particular, lol
I LIKED the setup we used at the 3v3. Yea i dropped some combos but ultimately i think we are better off.
James asked for an explaination, so i gave one. I wasnt complaining >_>
Quote from: zosla on June 29, 2010, 12:59:15 PM
ill show u guys no matter what teh setup is ill blow u away!!!!
peace G
I think everyone should notice by now that the results haven't changed much at least in top 5 in different tournaments with different setups.
Anyway, back to the main topic. lag/lag free = no different AS SOON AS you find the optimum solution around it. Which I "believe" i already have and I'm not going to say it here coz I've got enough flaming already. Don't believe me ?? Think about the 3vs3.
So, If you wanna hear "my solution", come talk to me.
Done !! End of the lagging issue.
Hue...
TEACH ME BABY!!!! LOL
Actually I've also found it too^^ but we will share it once we catch up later when u come back laaa.
Sharing it here always get shit from people and flame^^.
The solution is to dust of your CRT's and harden the fuck up. We will be using a lagless setup at nats.
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r on June 29, 2010, 06:01:18 PM
I think everyone should notice by now that the results haven't changed much at least in top 5 in different tournaments with different setups.
Anyway, back to the main topic. lag/lag free = no different AS SOON AS you find the optimum solution around it. Which I "believe" i already have and I'm not going to say it here coz I've got enough flaming already. Don't believe me ?? Think about the 3vs3.
So, If you wanna hear "my solution", come talk to me.
Done !! End of the lagging issue.
Quote from: zosla on June 29, 2010, 06:11:58 PM
Actually I've also found it too^^ but we will share it once we catch up later when u come back laaa.
Sharing it here always get shit from people and flame^^.
Right, that's it.
Could you guys sound any more up yourselves? You think all this drama about the setups has been specifically to give everyone but you the advantage? To even the field? To stop YOU from performing?
Get the fuck out.
GIGA is YOUR home territory. YOU guys introduced GIGA to us. YOU spend the time there regularly. There is NOTHING stopping you having MORE practice on those setups than everyone else. And now you think you're all high and mighty for WORKING OUT how to play on them? Fucking astounding.
Despite being better than most other players and having proved it many times you STILL want to rub people's faces in it by having "worked out" how to play on an OPTIMAL setup. And THEN feeling the need to POINT OUT that you're still better ON YOUR HOMEGROUND SETUPS. Any person with A BRAIN knows that giving a better player a setup where they can react EVEN MORE QUICKLY is NOT going to make the worse players start winning! I'm frankly amazed that people of your calibre can be SO DENSE about an issue like this.
And yet who are the people whining about not hitting combos and LOOKING BAD on a VIDEO? Wow.
And no, I have NO confidence this will be the "end of the lag issue" any more than it has been the LAST 5 FUCKING TIMES YOU'VE SAID THAT. You're going to drag it out every time you lose "because of it", and now it seems everytime you "win in spite of it".
Get some fucking humility and stop being such assholes. I'm utterly sick of your pathetic attitudes in general about these issues. None of it is about YOU. You're not that goddamn special.
Bang, get stung.
Quote from: fluxcore on June 29, 2010, 07:04:03 PM
Right, that's it.
Could you guys sound any more up yourselves? You think all this drama about the setups has been specifically to give everyone but you the advantage? To even the field? To stop YOU from performing?
That's what YOU think, not what i think. I've never thought about changing the setup will make YOU have higher chance to beat us, even by 1%. And having said that, Playing on a 1s delay monitor will make no different to YOUR outcome.Quote from: fluxcore on June 29, 2010, 07:04:03 PM
Get the fuck out.
I Wonder if the majority want YOU out OR want US out of the scene. Just because you are an admin, doesn't mean you can act like a retard with 0 IQ.Quote from: fluxcore on June 29, 2010, 07:04:03 PM
GIGA is YOUR home territory. YOU guys introduced GIGA to us. YOU spend the time there regularly. There is NOTHING stopping you having MORE practice on those setups than everyone else. And now you think you're all high and mighty for WORKING OUT how to play on them? Fucking astounding.
I didn't introduce giga to you. Talking about advantage, I remember the first time we had tournament was at RVB. And that was our first time being there and we still placed tops. I wonder what happened to the "HOMETOWN ADVANTAGE". That kind of thinking clearly identify the different between a real player and a real retard.
Bring the setup you play at home 24/day and I will show YOU it doesn't make a fucking different.Quote from: fluxcore on June 29, 2010, 07:04:03 PM
Despite being better than most other players and having proved it many times you STILL want to rub people's faces in it by having "worked out" how to play on an OPTIMAL setup. And THEN feeling the need to POINT OUT that you're still better ON YOUR HOMEGROUND SETUPS. Any person with A BRAIN knows that giving a better player a setup where they can react EVEN MORE QUICKLY is NOT going to make the worse players start winning! I'm frankly amazed that people of your calibre can be SO DENSE about an issue like this.
Did I ever mention about my solution of how I overcome the lag free issue Or is it your retarded assumption ?? Quote from: fluxcore on June 29, 2010, 07:04:03 PM
And yet who are the people whining about not hitting combos and LOOKING BAD on a VIDEO? Wow.
It's logical that a person who cannot perform combo will never care about hitting combos.Quote from: fluxcore on June 29, 2010, 07:04:03 PM
And no, I have NO confidence this will be the "end of the lag issue" any more than it has been the LAST 5 FUCKING TIMES YOU'VE SAID THAT. You're going to drag it out every time you lose "because of it", and now it seems everytime you "win in spite of it".
Forget about what I've said. Giving a mask to a retard doesn't change his retarding personalities.Quote from: fluxcore on June 29, 2010, 07:04:03 PM
Get some fucking humility and stop being such assholes. I'm utterly sick of your pathetic attitudes in general about these issues. None of it is about YOU. You're not that goddamn special.
Are you looking at a mirror when you said that ??Not everyone think lowly like you. My solution is nothing more than adding strategy. Since i've already got flamed before I could start. I guess it doesn't make any different if I start now. At least It will contribute in some people's strategies and improve their gameplay next time at the tournament. So I will make a post for that now. Until someone
other than YOU telling me to stop or until I think that What I'm doing actually pretty helpless to the community, then I will stop. So.... feel free to Keep the flame coming. It's pretty cold down here. ^_^
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r on June 29, 2010, 10:35:42 PM
Yes it's better because you can react better but you are not used to it so your combo timing is off. That's corrected. It wouldn't be a problem to the OUTCOME but it will be a problem to the PERFORMANCE. Because our timing is off, it made us look like scrubs even in the Grand Final. Ask how many players right here feel like scrubs in the 3v3 compare to their normal casuals ??
Basically, What I'm saying is for a different delay setup:
the OUTCOME of the match won't change when you find the right solution to it which is pretty easy to see.
BUT the PERFORMANCE will be effected by it.
OUTCOME = Win/lose
PERFORMANCE = Combo execution, max damage combo, reset/mix up timing, etc........
And when people watch tournament clips, they don't care about the OUTCOME, they are interested in PERFORMANCE to determine that country's level.
I hope i made it clear enough ??
I totally understand where youre coming from.
However, I personally think, as i have said before, that we all just need to harden up and learn the timing for our combos on a lagless setup. Its not that hard to do. We all KNOW the speed and rhythm that we should be going at for our combos, we all just need to adjust to the different visual cues to adjust to the speed of the setup.
I personally prefer the idea of a lagless setup, just because it makes my reactionary game so much better. Timing of combos is easy to learn/re-learn, but adjusting your reaction speed is a lot more difficult.
Ultimately, if everyone gets used to a setup like this one, we will not only have impressive combos for the spectators, but equally impressive reactions, which could potentially lead to epic comebacks, awesome trades, and a hell of a lot more exciting stuff. Which will be a lot better for everyone in the long run.
Realistically, if we all play on a setup like this, for a few days, or even a week if youre slow, it wont take us very long to get used to it, and be raping people with awesome unnecessarily long combos that make the crowds dicks explode with delight in no time.
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r on June 29, 2010, 10:50:26 PM
So, regarding back to the solution.
If you say : "I could have won the match", then you are wrong, it won't change the outcome unless you put a few assumptions such as : you find yourself a solution and the other players don't, but that's another scenario already.
And if you say : "I can do better than that", then you are right, you can perform way better than that on different setups. But tough luck, that's the setup designed for tournament.
@ Rorooze : I really wanted to believe it and I tried to believe it many times but I always get disappointed. Maybe "my believing" wasn't strong enough to twist the fact.
I kind of said this exact same thing in my reply to James' post earlier (might have been in the 3v3 thread), although i feel i put it a bit more eloquently.
I dont necessarily agree with the way Hue has
WRITTEN his argument. The outcome of the match COULD have changed on a different setup, but it has an equal chance of NOT changing at all.
Which means i TOTALLY AGREE with Hue on the
POINT he is trying to make, but i just wrote it in a different way. :) I also agree that you quite simply CANNOT blame the setup for a loss. And to be honest, i dont think anyone here is going to argue with that.
And if anyone does argue. Fuck you. BIRRY WONG and RICHARD UMEHALA will put the Niuean smash on you.
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r on June 29, 2010, 09:47:03 PM
About the optimum solution, It's just logical stuffs combining from a few facts + a general solution. Nothing like Rocket Science really..... I guess the best way for me to explain it so that everyone can see it clearly is by looking at the different cases.
Scenario 1 - both players get effected : The fact which the setup has different timing cannot be changed. And It wouldn't effect you only, It would effect other players as well. So If u have to play against an equal level player, u are practically on the same ground because it effects both of u. So It would all come down to whoever "adjust" to it faster win OR whoever has better "strategy" win. And if u play against a worse player, most likely u still win since both of u get effected by it. So if u get -2 on ur overall performance, he would get -2 as well unless his setup at home has closer delay than urs. And that will go to Scenario 2.
Scenario 2 - only U get effected : If u play against a player who doesn't get effected by the lag less setup (In this case, a) Maybe some "less combo/1-2 frame timing relying characters" or b) people who has this setup at home) there's nothing much u can do about it since they already know the "system" better than u right from the start. And the outcome depends a lot on who knows the system better. So basically, If this player level = ur level and know the system better than u, u would lose no matter what. Or If his level is lower than urs, that means u still can beat him ONLY IF u don't depend on combo to avoid making mistakes from ur executions and depend more on "strategy".
In the end, Depend on strategy to win seems to be an optimum solution since u don't have to worry about the other player knows the system or not. Nor u need to worry about the change in the setup because It will fall back into Scenario 1 & 2.
So I worked my way backward and started to develop my strategy. The strategy I had was:
1. Relying on easy damage & basic combo where timing is "less required" (for example, for viper, I do st.heavy punch --> ex sessimic hammer instead of st. heavy punch --> feint --> blah blah....., and jump in heavy kick --> mid punch --> thunder knuckle instead of st.mid punch --> cr.mid punch, and so on.......). This way, I can still keep 80% of my damage and reduce the risk of missing combo by over 80% if we don't want to call it completely. And I think ALL the characters should have basic combos where damage is 80% as good as full-hard combos. I could be wrong in a few cases but you know what i mean.
2. Since this setup is lag less, reaction plays a very important factor compares to normal games. Which also means, Anti-air, tech throw now can be performed easier + faster = more effective. Zonning & footsies tools also benefit a lot in this case but I didn't name it here because at the moment, that is our weakness and Nobody could master it (punish sweeps like Daigo). But thanks to that, it open number 3 for me.
3. More footsies and zonning, combine with a better anti-air, this is an ultimate tool. What else, NZ levels cannot punish sweeps so feel free to stick your foot out.
4. Full damage combo or punish "will not" work as well in this case coz my timing has already been changed. PLUS, being able to execute it in once round doesn't mean i can pull it out on another rounds.
So, in general, what i did was sticking to basic combos to minimize the risk, Use more tools which benefit from lag free, and play a safe strategy. That is why in the 3 vs 3, I didn't use any fancy moves or mix-up but still did fine and processed pretty far. And you probably has already notice that I used Sessimic hammer A LOT more compare to normal games coz this is 1 of the benefit which is listed. I can keep going on and on for the whole day but I think you already understand it by now or you have already understood it before seeing the post and think what's I've said is pretty useless. But that's what I've said myself, it's all logical and easy to see stuffs.
Any more questions ?? feel free to ask. But please don't flame. I just want to help. Peace !! ^_^
This is total truth. In my match against Skullator for example, i stopped going for RSF's because i was dropping them, and just went for simple punishes like s.hk -> guac because i knew i wouldn't fuck it up. The match takes a bit longer, but you dont throw the game away because of retarded drops.
HOWEVER, you only need to do this for a little while until you are used to the setup. Once you get used to it, you can go for all the combos you like AND have easier reactions. THIS is the best way to go imo. It may take you days or weeks to get used to the setup, but when it happens, you WILL be Godlike again. Even moreso than you were before.
Lag free simply takes TIME to get used to. Once you are used to a lag free setup, your game will be BETTER than if you were playing on a laggy setup that you are also used to. This is the whole point of a lag free setup. We want people to be the BEST they can be. If youre awesome on a laggy setup, but crap on a lag free setup, then
youre not able to reach your potential as a player. You NEED to be playing on a lag free setup to become the best you can be. This is why i think everyone needs to toughen up. Stop the crying, and play with no lag until youre fucking awesome at it.
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r on June 29, 2010, 06:01:18 PM
I think everyone should notice by now that the results haven't changed much at least in top 5 in different tournaments with different setups.
Anyway, back to the main topic. lag/lag free = no different AS SOON AS you find the optimum solution around it. Which I "believe" i already have and I'm not going to say it here coz I've got enough flaming already. Don't believe me ?? Think about the 3vs3.
So, If you wanna hear "my solution", come talk to me.
Done !! End of the lagging issue.
Quote from: zosla on June 29, 2010, 06:11:58 PM
Hue...
TEACH ME BABY!!!! LOL
Actually I've also found it too^^ but we will share it once we catch up later when u come back laaa.
Sharing it here always get shit from people and flame^^.
Alan read these posts as saying "We are so good that we will beat everyone on every setup". Because, truthfully, that is how they have been presented. This is why he got annoyed. Which is understandable.
Hue in particular i think is following an intelligent way of thinking, but has just written his post in a way that hasn't gone down particularly well. This is exactly the same as 9/10 of my arguments with Andy. :P
Hue and Andy need to apologise for being condescending. It DOESNT MATTER whether you wanted to be or not. This is just how it was interpreted, so it requires an apology.
Alan needs to apologise for unleashing the ragepost of death. Only BIRRY WONG is allowed to unleash the ragepost of death.
Everyone needs to read my post (the one you are reading RIGHT NOW) again. If i do say so myself, its choc full of me being a genuinely awesome dude, and having a godlike outlook on this entire incident. Not to yank my own chain or anything, but for someone who gets in as many arguments as i do, i would make a fucking amazing psychologist.
Two words bitches.
BIRRY WONG
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r on June 29, 2010, 09:01:17 PM
I Wonder if the majority want YOU out OR want US out of the scene. Just because you are an admin, doesn't mean you can act like a retard with 0 IQ.
I think you'll find no-one wants ANYONE out of the community. But likewise no-one wants a community whose decisions are made solely to try to make the players near the top look as good as possible at the expense of actually having a better platform for promoting good play.
QuoteTalking about advantage, I remember the first time we had tournament was at RVB. And that was our first time being there and we still placed tops. I wonder what happened to the "HOMETOWN ADVANTAGE". That kind of thinking clearly identify the different between a real player and a real retard.
Bring the setup you play at home 24/day and I will show YOU it doesn't make a fucking different.
Yup, pretty sure no-one else had been to RVB before that either. Except probably Andy to organise things. In my last post I also said specifically that you guys ARE better than people, even on bad setups, and a good setup will only make you better in relation to other people! Therefore telling me that you'll beat me on my home setup makes no difference, I already KNOW you'd beat me because you're better! Saying stuff like that just makes you come off like a bully that has nothing other than beating people to put behind your words.
As for your strategy post on how to cope with NO LAG, yeah you do actually say some things which make me think you understand why no lag is preferable. But for some reason you hinge so strongly on this "cannot do your good combos" crutch that SERIOUSLY can be rectified with fairly limited time practicing on the setup, which as I've pointed out is something VERY EASY for you to do given your situation with GIGA. It's also not like it's online where the lag varies - that really IS hard to cope with.
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 29, 2010, 11:25:57 PM
Alan read these posts as saying "We are so good that we will beat everyone on every setup". Because, truthfully, that is how they have been presented. This is why he got annoyed. Which is understandable.
That's actually not quite what got me angry, since it's true that they will beat most people on whatever setup. It was more that they had to say it in such an arrogant way inferring that DESPITE this "handicap" of a lagless setup they will still prevail, and then ALSO follow up with "but we're not going to share our strategies for coping because fluxcore gets grumpy with us when we post unhelpful stuff".
On a different subject I split hue's post about his strategy for coping with the lag/lack of lag into a separate topic since it doesn't really belong here/deserves it's own thread. Bill if you could post in the other thread and copy the relevant section of your post above into it, that'd be cool :)
I only said "bring your setup and I will show you it doesn't make a fucking different" because your post is saying: "you guys prefer a setup familiar to you so that you can beast people out". So my reply was : "Just because you use your setup, doesn't mean you can beast people out. And If you can beast people out, you don't need to go for similar setup to begin with. Don't believe me ?? Bring your setup and I will show you".
SO my main point from the first day i made a post about the setup has always been :"I wasn't fucking going for the OUTCOME right from the beginning, what I'm talking here is PERFORMANCE, and If you think i'm worrying about the Outcome then you are all wrong because the OUTCOME has always been identical. I'm not smacking shit into people face, OPEN YOUR EYES AND LOOK AT THE DAMN FACTS IN THE TOURNAMENT RESULTS"
And I will tell you this, THE OUTCOME HAS NEVER EVER BEEN my purpose for attending tournament. I simply wanted to entertain/enjoy AND PERFORM WELL at tournaments. The 3vs3 was the exception BECAUSE Cody gave up his game for me to play. So I had to put the OUTCOME in front of PERFORMANCE otherwise How am I going to feel after the tournament when I took my friend's spot and lose??
Enough of this, I'm out this forum for temporary.
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r on June 29, 2010, 11:52:14 PM
SO my main point from the first day i made a post about the setup has always been :"I wasn't fucking going for the OUTCOME right from the beginning, what I'm talking here is PERFORMANCE,
And I will tell you this, THE OUTCOME HAS NEVER EVER BEEN my purpose for attending tournament. I simply wanted to entertain/enjoy AND PERFORM WELL
Awesome, so you agree that lagless setup is better then, and you just will practice a bit on it to get used to it so your combos are fine AND you can react even more godlike than you're used to.
Don't know quite why you went through that whole "want a worse performing setup" bit though, that threw me for a loop for a while.
Quote
Enough of this, I'm out this forum for temporary.
I'm back. ^_^
Quote from: BILL
Lag free simply takes TIME to get used to. Once you are used to a lag free setup, your game will be BETTER than if you were playing on a laggy setup that you are also used to. This is the whole point of a lag free setup. We want people to be the BEST they can be. If youre awesome on a laggy setup, but crap on a lag free setup, then youre not able to reach your potential as a player.
author=fluxcore
Awesome, so you agree that lagless setup is better then, and you just will practice a bit on it to get used to it so your combos are fine.
Don't know quite why you went through that whole "want a worse performing setup" bit though, that threw me for a loop for a while.
I don't like the idea : "we are having tournament once every 2 months and guess what ?? We are changing the setup so that everyone will perform worse than usual,
enjoy the bonus !!"
If we run lag free setup consistently before the tournament, then i can understand and I would love to play on it. However, What I've experienced so far is that the lag free setup is so special that i can only get to play it on tournament days.
About the reason WHY I still "want a worse performing setup". I have explained it already but I will explain it again with different example:
Using a $5000 stick with all 10 buttons have the perfect layout FOR THE CHAMPION OF THE ARCADE WORLD ABC, doesn't mean you can play better than your $100 stick. And guess what, A BONUS !!! You only get to use that stick & ONLY THAT STICK in tournament. Enjoy the performance and don't forget to memorize the new layout of the buttons which are designed for your 11 fingers and don't worry, once you get used to it you will become godlike. Oh, and you only have 2 matches before getting eliminated so good luck adapting to it.
That's why I'd prefer to use my $100 stick with 6 buttons designed for my 5 fingers.
I think if we do get a lagless setup, we need multiple other ones to practice on.
I know as a personal problem, whenever I play on a different setup I usually take roughly half an hour before I'm warmed up and adjusted, after that I should have no problems. We're generally lucky to get 1 game before our 2 games and we're out. Guess it didn't help that at the 3v3 the casual setup (which Lenny didn't organise btw, just no-one turned it off lol) was on a different level of lag and most of us who played on it were happy with it. I spent quite a while on it though. Xlan should be sweet though where we all have all the time in the world to prepare and get used to a hopefully lagless setup and we'll see how that goes.
half an hour of playing ?? that's not bad, I will see you in casuals after the tournament is over. lol
But nah, I'm not looking at Lenny when talking about these. Lenny is a great guy who did more then enough for this community could ever ask for. I do respect Lenny a lot as he has contributed a lot for the community.
I'm just shooting out my thoughts about the events as a player so I do apologize if it hit Lenny. But honestly I've never aimed at him (unless someone set head-shot hacked).
And does anyone know what setup Xlan using ?? Maybe you practice so hard for the lag free setup and on that day you go there just to find out that they use the laggy setup which You've just decided to give up.
Xlan will be using whatever setups we are able to bring for the main tournament play.. So it will be up to us to keep it lag free if we want it to be.
The grand finals will no doubt be played on whatever setup they decide is good enough for their big screen \ viewing area. Maybe we can convince them grand finals should be played on lag free setup. This is of course just assuming whatever setup they intend to use isn't lag free lol.
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r on June 30, 2010, 01:17:43 AM
I'm back. ^_^
I don't like the idea : "we are having tournament once every 2 months and guess what ?? We are changing the setup so that everyone will perform worse than usual, enjoy the bonus !!"
If we run lag free setup consistently before the tournament, then i can understand and I would love to play on it. However, What I've experienced so far is that the lag free setup is so special that i can only get to play it on tournament days.
About the reason WHY I still "want a worse performing setup". I have explained it already but I will explain it again with different example:
Using a $5000 stick with all 10 buttons have the perfect layout FOR THE CHAMPION OF THE ARCADE WORLD ABC, doesn't mean you can play better than your $100 stick. And guess what, A BONUS !!! You only get to use that stick & ONLY THAT STICK in tournament. Enjoy the performance and don't forget to memorize the new layout of the buttons which are designed for your 11 fingers and don't worry, once you get used to it you will become godlike. Oh, and you only have 2 matches before getting eliminated so good luck adapting to it.
That's why I'd prefer to use my $100 stick with 6 buttons designed for my 5 fingers.
All our Ranbats will be using lag free setups from now on from what i understand. Additionally, so will all our competitions. So for those of us that are Auckland based, you WILL be getting consistent practice on it.
You also have the option of buying a CRT to practice on before tournaments and events. I realise "Buy a new TV" is a dumb suggestion, but CRT's are cheap as on trademe, and you only need to use it for a couple of days before a tourney to get your timing sorted.
Also, I completely understand the $5000 stick example you posted. And its a totally fair comment. The difference in this case is that the lag free setup was NOT a one off. We WILL be implementing it regularly. So there will be many opportunities for Auckland based people to get used to it.
As for the rest of the country, im not sure what their situation is. Unfortunately, their only option (without regular competition) really is, as i say, dusting off an old CRT and using it to practice before a tourney. But as i say, it won't take people very long to adjust. You can play for months on a laggy TV and then after a couple of days practice with a CRT you will be fine.
Unfortunately, yes, without regular practice, you may not perform as well as you would have done on a different setup. For our competitions, ranbats, etc, we WILL be trying to give people as much practice on the lag free setup as we possibly can to eliminate this. Lag free IS the best setup to be playing on. This is a solid fact. Its just unfortunate that we didnt get it sorted when vanilla SF4 dropped. But its sorted now. THIS IS HOW WE ARE DOING IT FROM NOW ON. I highly suggest that if people want results competitively, they should make an attempt to go out of their way to learn on a lag free setup, because this is how it will be running from now on. Peoples concerns have been read, and Lenny, Alan, and everyone else UNDERSTANDS THEM, but the fact of the matter is, lag free is the standard, and that is what we are using. We will not be changing it any time soon. You dont have to change your setup at home if you dont want to. I would just recommend that a week or so before an event, you plug in your CRT and suss your timing out on that.
Put it this way, Hue.
Why should anyone cater to YOU not being able to play on a lagless setup (which as everyone is pointing out is BETTER), at the expense of people who CAN play on a lagless setup? Why is it fair to make everyone in the tournament play on a WORSE setup just so you can look better?
How do you learn to play on this setup? If you choose to ignore all the other events that will take place on it before the nationals, go to giga. Hire the setup. Practice on it. If you aren't dedicated enough to do this, then you have no right to complain about things.
If the VGA cable is the issue, maybe Lenny would lend you one.
I think youre misinterpreting Hue a bit here Alan. He is not saying "I cant play on this so it is bad" He is just listing his personal experience and opinion. He is speaking on behalf of everybody, but is applying his own point of view to it, which i totally understand. Fact of the matter is, on the day of the 3v3, EVERYONE suffered from the same problem. Hue's argument is that he doesnt want everyone in NZ to look scrubby compared to the rest of the world. Which is fair enough.
But ultimately, (and this is the ONLY point where i feel i disagree with Hue on this tbh) we need to play on a lag free setup to ACTUALLY get our game as best as we can.
Its like a race between cars. Lets say a laggy setup is, for instance, a VW Polo, and a lag free setup is a F1 racer. YES, you can go pretty fast in the polo, and do some impressive stuff, but the polo is never going to beat the F1 car in a race.
We need to be driving F1 cars. When you buy a F1 car, it might take you a while to get used to the speed, but when you do, you can do a lot better than you can in your VW polo. Lag free is the way to go.
holy molly...this is worst than me hahahaha.
where should I start....
Hue,
As I told you many many times^^ don't bother la cao. The more you try to explain, the more crap you will get lol, so no point in argueing.. BECAUSE THE RESULT WILL SIMPLY BE THE SAME :) >>> I know some hates this phrase ^^!
btw, that lagless/ lagish setup I am already use to.. don't care what setup, just bring it on.
On a more serious note:
Key point for you Hue: Just come by, say Hi, sort out some tournaments stuff and check out whats new :)
Confronting arguement like this really gets nowhere as seen in my previous posts...just get the community to have different opinions and what good is that? Just follow their standards because it doesn't matter at the end of the day.
don't worry, be happy :)
Quote from: zosla on June 30, 2010, 08:41:33 AM
holy molly...this is worst than me hahahaha.
where should I start....
Hue,
As I told you many many times^^ don't bother la cao. The more you try to explain, the more crap you will get lol, so no point in argueing.. BECAUSE THE RESULT WILL SIMPLY BE THE SAME :) >>> I know some hates this phrase ^^!
btw, that lagless/ lagish setup I am already use to.. don't care what setup, just bring it on.
Key point for you Hue: Just come by, say Hi, sort out some tournaments stuff and check out whats new :)
don't worry, be happy :)
The trouble is when you guys say "the result will be the same" it sounds like "we will just beat you guys anyway" which is kind of rude, and is what pissed Alan off.
I know what you ACTUALLY mean, and ive tried to explain it to everyone to dissolve this shit, because in essence, i actually agree with the way Hue is thinking. But yea, you guys just need to pick your words a bit more carefully, because angry white dudes like me and Alan can very easily take it the wrong way. :P
But yea. Youre already used to the setup. That didnt take long did it? This is the point im trying to make. If you put in the effort to get used to the better setup, then your gameplay will be better off in the long run.
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 08:29:13 AM
I think youre misinterpreting Hue a bit here Alan. He is not saying "I cant play on this so it is bad" He is just listing his personal experience and opinion.
It has been personal experience and opinion in the past that lightning was thrown by the Gods, too - doesn't make it correct. Also perhaps my wording, while being intentionally personal to prove a point, made it seem like the problem is solely in regards to Hue - it isn't. LOTS of people need to realise that playing on a substandard setup and expecting to perform well when given a correct setup is bound to cause problems for them. And vice versa. However, only ONE way is what any tournament setup should aspire to. As mentioned many times, we're going to provide opportunities to get more practice on the setup, even if you don't ALREADY go to giga regularly (like many people do). If you go to GIGA and STILL choose to play on the shitty setups, then you're doing yourself a disservice and no-one else.
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 08:29:13 AM
Fact of the matter is, on the day of the 3v3, EVERYONE suffered from the same problem.
I've actually asked quite a few people about this, and not everyone suffered. Some people said it actually allowed them to play the game the way it's supposed to be played - things like throw techs and normal counters/anti airs worked perfectly, unlike the other setups.
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 08:52:16 AM
The trouble is when you guys say "the result will be the same" it sounds like "we will just beat you guys anyway" which is kind of rude, and is what pissed Alan off.
I'd rather you didn't assume what makes me angry, because it's not that phrase that's the issue, it's the attitude surrounding it. I know the result will likely be the same - the better players will still win.
Quote from: zosla on June 30, 2010, 08:41:33 AM
As I told you many many times^^ don't bother la cao. The more you try to explain, the more crap you will get lol, so no point in argueing.. BECAUSE THE RESULT WILL SIMPLY BE THE SAME :) >>> I know some hates this phrase ^^!
btw, that lagless/ lagish setup I am already use to.. don't care what setup, just bring it on.
I'm very much an advocate for free speech, but only if it is actually backed by reason and that other people's counter arguments are actually acknowledged. You guys are just of guilty of being brick walls as anyone else around here - ignoring all of my points and attacking me rather than actually saying something like 'oh yeah being able to react properly would be better'. This and ONLY THIS is the reason for me getting angry.
As it is, I pretty much DO think you should stop posting. But I'm not going to force anyone to stop.
By the way, there is a committee that discusses these issues, and while general opinions will be taken into account, it is solely the discretion of this committee to provide the answers at the end and implement them in events.
Quote from: fluxcore on June 30, 2010, 09:21:29 AM
I've actually asked quite a few people about this, and not everyone suffered. Some people said it actually allowed them to play the game the way it's supposed to be played - things like throw techs and normal counters/anti airs worked perfectly, unlike the other setups.
This isnt accurate dude. Throw techs and reaction based shit was awesome, no arguments there. Even Hue said this was better. But literally EVERYONE was dropping combos. And that is the 'problem' that is being discussed. There was not ONE person that didnt fuck up at least one combo.
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 09:30:20 AM
This isnt accurate dude. Throw techs and reaction based shit was awesome, no arguments there. Even Hue said this was better. But literally EVERYONE was dropping combos. And that is the 'problem' that is being discussed. There was not ONE person that didnt fuck up at least one combo.
I concur - while teching throws and counter poking is nice, none of that translates to SOLID damage and stun, particularly for characters who rely on big damage when they can get it *single tear*
But, I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that everything should be lagless, or as close to lagless as possible from now on - much like what everyone here has been saying, but just communicating in slightly terse/roundabout ways.
so how about them all whites eh?
Well, Richard just won the argument.
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 09:30:20 AM
This isnt accurate dude. Throw techs and reaction based shit was awesome, no arguments there. Even Hue said this was better. But literally EVERYONE was dropping combos. And that is the 'problem' that is being discussed. There was not ONE person that didnt fuck up at least one combo.
The only combo I dropped was because of some weird Honda hit box issue...and yes I know Boxer combos are easy and aren't affected a lot by lag. Actually Richard was hitting the majority of his combos too. So not quite everyone but definitely a large majority.
BUT! hasn't execution always been a problem at our tournaments? I remember Cody commenting about the low level of execution in previous tournaments. I don't wanna start an argument but I think everyone should remember that.
Quote from: Toomeke on June 30, 2010, 10:30:41 AM
The only combo I dropped was because of some weird Honda hit box issue...and yes I know Boxer combos are easy and aren't affected a lot by lag. Actually Richard was hitting the majority of his combos too. So not quite everyone but definitely a large majority.
BUT! hasn't execution always been a problem at our tournaments? I remember Cody commenting about the low level of execution in previous tournaments. I don't wanna start an argument but I think everyone should remember that.
The difference is that you play on a CRT dont you? So you shouldn't have had any issues since you were used to similar input delay.
Actually im pretty sure Richard plays on a CRT as well.
And as for the execution barrier, there seems to be a certain window of lag that everyone is used to. Too much, we drop shit, too little, we drop shit. Since we have found a setup with no lag that we will be using for comps and ranbats, we should be learning our combo timing on that shit, as i have said for this whole topic.
^
Totally. Me and Richard (irc chat go figure) were two of the people Alan asked about the lag. Hence why he said a few people didn't suffer. So he was kinda accurate.
Quote from: fluxcore on June 30, 2010, 09:21:29 AM
It has been personal experience and opinion in the past that lightning was thrown by the Gods, too - doesn't make it correct. Also perhaps my wording, while being intentionally personal to prove a point, made it seem like the problem is solely in regards to Hue - it isn't. LOTS of people need to realise that playing on a substandard setup and expecting to perform well when given a correct setup is bound to cause problems for them. And vice versa. However, only ONE way is what any tournament setup should aspire to. As mentioned many times, we're going to provide opportunities to get more practice on the setup, even if you don't ALREADY go to giga regularly (like many people do). If you go to GIGA and STILL choose to play on the shitty setups, then you're doing yourself a disservice and no-one else.
You have missed my point here (and, to a lesser extent, Hue's) Hue totally understands all this. He has even said it. Hue was arguing that if we all play on substandard setups regularly WITH NO ACCESS TO GOOD SETUPS and we then bust out a different setup for competitions that are few and far between, then our performance suffers. His point is that at tournaments, our performance should be the best possible. The flaw in his argument was that he assumed we would not be having regular practice on lag free setups, which i have already said is not the case.
Quote from: fluxcore on June 30, 2010, 09:21:29 AM
I'd rather you didn't assume what makes me angry, because it's not that phrase that's the issue, it's the attitude surrounding it. I know the result will likely be the same - the better players will still win.
Ok. Im sorry i assumed what makes you angry. But it seems i assumed correctly, said what you have said in this quote (although in a context which i attempted to use to benefit Hue and Andy, to try and illustrate YOUR point of view) and you have misread it and you are now arguing with me over nothing.
Quote from: fluxcore on June 30, 2010, 09:21:29 AM
I'm very much an advocate for free speech, but only if it is actually backed by reason and that other people's counter arguments are actually acknowledged. You guys are just of guilty of being brick walls as anyone else around here - ignoring all of my points and attacking me rather than actually saying something like 'oh yeah being able to react properly would be better'. This and ONLY THIS is the reason for me getting angry.
You may not see this because you are participating in the argument, and i know i suffer the same thing, but this issue you have about people not listening is going both ways in this argument. Shit is being misinterpreted all over the show. By them AND by you. I am TRYING to help explain both sides to each other, in some attempt to get everyone on the same page, but it is clearly failing for this exact reason.
I dont mind getting flamed when im actively involved in something, but when i am attempting to serve as a form of mediation (which involves me pointing out things that are right and wrong with the arguments on both sides.) it annoys me somewhat having to defend myself.
Quote from: Toomeke on June 30, 2010, 10:51:23 AM
^
Totally. Me and Richard (irc chat go figure) were two of the people Alan asked about the lag. Hence why he said a few people didn't suffer. So he was kinda accurate.
Fair enough. I probably leaned a little too heavily towards the implication that it was only a few that were affected, rather than the other way around. Im happy to concede this one. Ultimately, the point is, practice makes perfect.
theres no doubt u-man-ehara failed miserably at any sorta combo on that setup :'(
hope i can make it friday for a second chance at that monitor
aiya,
no point argueing... just prove it by becoming better and performing better than everyone will shut up and play nicely^^
yay!!!
Quote from: zosla on June 30, 2010, 11:40:57 AM
aiya,
no point argueing... just prove it by becoming better and performing better than everyone will shut up and play nicely^^
yay!!!
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 11:50:38 AM
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME
only matters when andy says it ::)
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 11:31:43 AM
You have missed my point here (and, to a lesser extent, Hue's) Hue totally understands all this. He has even said it. Hue was arguing that if we all play on substandard setups regularly WITH NO ACCESS TO GOOD SETUPS and we then bust out a different setup for competitions that are few and far between, then our performance suffers. His point is that at tournaments, our performance should be the best possible. The flaw in his argument was that he assumed we would not be having regular practice on lag free setups, which i have already said is not the case.
Ok, I acknowledge the point, and did right at the start of the "argument", but it is contingent on:
a) no-one having access to a lagless setup
AND
b) it being a good idea to use a suboptimal setup in a tournament simply because people are not used to a lagless setup.
I doubt B is true in any case, and A is DEFINITELY not the case, so as far as I (and many other people) see, there IS no (and never has been any) argument. So the continual snarky comments from a handful of people about "how awesome they are and how they'll show everyone what's up but this is the LAST time they'll mention it" is entirely aggravating.
QuoteOk. Im sorry i assumed what makes you angry. But it seems i assumed correctly, said what you have said in this quote (although in a context which i attempted to use to benefit Hue and Andy, to try and illustrate YOUR point of view) and you have misread it and you are now arguing with me over nothing.
Again, the PREMISE of their claim I have no problem with. It is the comments surrounding it that are the problem. I'm making this point because I want them to realise that I DO respect them and recognise their talents as players, as I always have and will continue to say as long as it is true. But talking trash and claiming to have uncovered the secret (but won't share it because they got into an argument in the past over something that is dead and buried [by their own words]) is NOT constructive.
That as an accumulation of all the other "comments" is what provoked my rage post - and I still feel it was justified.
Sweet. The only thing im going to comment on is the bit about the 'trash talking'. While i admit, those comments were NOT constructive on their part, i dont think Hue's in particular were meant maliciously. And i genuinely dont think his attitude around all this is as bad as it would seem.
UMEHALA ;)
Hey Birry Wong, when are you backing me up?
booo hoo ><
Also, Andy is cool.
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 02:12:30 PM
Also, Andy is cool.
FUCKING ROCK IT BABE!!! LOL
CHEESE :)
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 08:29:13 AM
I think youre misinterpreting Hue a bit here Alan. He is not saying "I cant play on this so it is bad" He is just listing his personal experience and opinion. He is speaking on behalf of everybody, but is applying his own point of view to it, which i totally understand. Fact of the matter is, on the day of the 3v3, EVERYONE suffered from the same problem. Hue's argument is that he doesnt want everyone in NZ to look scrubby compared to the rest of the world. Which is fair enough.
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r
Yes it's better because you can react better but you are not used to it so your combo timing is off. That's corrected. It wouldn't be a problem to the OUTCOME but it will be a problem to the PERFORMANCE. Because our timing is off, it made us look like scrubs even in the Grand Final. Ask how many players right here feel like scrubs in the 3v3 compare to their normal casuals ??
Quote from: BIRRY WONG on June 30, 2010, 08:29:13 AM
But ultimately, (and this is the ONLY point where i feel i disagree with Hue on this tbh) we need to play on a lag free setup to ACTUALLY get our game as best as we can.
Quote from: Cr8zyK1LL3r
If we run lag free setup consistently before the tournament, then i can understand and I would love to play on it.
We all look like a pack of fucking homos talking about this Lag issue.
Heres my "input" (no pun)
A Samsung 40" HDTV with x amount of lag is not a standard, it maybe what some of you prefer. My Sony Bravia 55" HDTV is what i use to prefer playing on, but,... its not a standard.
- Most of the setups on the international level is on NO LAG setups so this is THE standard
- The ppl who organize our tourneys has gone out of their way to find and use NO LAG setups to meet this standard
So lets stiffen up our upper lips and buy one of these or,..... dont complain at tourneys otherwise Jay Pula will Jab your fucking mouths.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=300136181
Quote from: Gankatron on June 30, 2010, 06:04:58 PM
We all look like a pack of fucking homos talking about this Lag issue.
Heres my "input" (no pun)
A Samsung 40" HDTV with x amount of lag is not a standard, it maybe what some of you prefer. My Sony Bravia 55" HDTV is what i use to prefer playing on, but,... its not a standard.
- Most of the setups on the international level is on NO LAG setups so this is THE standard
- The ppl who organize our tourneys has gone out of their way to find and use NO LAG setups to meet this standard
So lets stiffen up our upper lips and buy one of these or,..... dont complain at tourneys otherwise Jay Pula will Jab your fucking mouths.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=300136181
THANK YOU
Quote from: Gankatron on June 30, 2010, 06:04:58 PM
dont complain at tourneys otherwise Jay Pula will Jab your fucking mouths.
jay scares me.
Quote from: Gankatron on June 30, 2010, 06:04:58 PMdont complain at tourneys otherwise Jay Pula will Jab your fucking mouths.
Consider this "debate" over.
I have played on mor then 10 diffrent setups and am still very goodd. The peoplle that talk about lag are no pro. The people that talk about lag are just bad and should practice more LOlZ. I play aginst many top competitors on many diffeerent setups and because I train and I beleieve in my skill and not in the lag I win 100 %. People that practice and play to win 100 % will always beat noob players that make lag excusse.
100 persent true
Ye, i said the execution was bad, since the problem existed even in the 2v2
(it was worse, we had 3 setups, but only one of them were using the vga cable IIRC)
My intention was never "use laggy setup", or saying that we should do this or that, I was just trying to point out there's a persisting problem, and we needed a solution to prevent shit like this time.
I believe that if there's a lag free standard setup, everyone would prefer it.
However I don't the think the story is over yet.
1. For example this time at least James and Andy (can't be bothered to read all sorry ;D) said they have problem with this but not with CRT/ EVO APAC setup.
So is it possible that there might be some hidden problem with the setup we're using? I'm no good electronic techie.
Is there any cheap hack so people can get similar experience at home?
2. The last time when I went to giga to practice with Myron, we saw the ASUS monitor but couldn't figure
out how to connect it to the xbox, so we need to buy and bring our own vga cable right?
3. If 2 is true then, we probably can't be bothered, we're not that hardcore, i think it also applies to many casual players.
I wanna ask, since we're connecting to the projector parallel already, is it possible to connect to a giga big screen parallel as well in the tournament so people can choose which one to look at?
I mean its a disadvantaged setup, and giga probably won't charge you more for it, furthermore casual players like me and Myron can also participate with more confidence without having to specifically practice on a lagfree setup, I don't see any downside. But as always, its just a suggestion.
And its for Bill only, I think you're wrong, it takes really long for people to get used to it, at least that's the
case for me. Not to mention its only good when ALL setups you play on are lagfree, if you switch between
the twos or more different delay setups, your SSFIV life would probably be over.
And I'm a psychology undergrad, beat that.
Edit: OK, lenny is exception coz he's mighty
If you wish to continue to practice on a laggy setup then by all means do so, just do not come to a tournament to expect what your preference is as like Fong said, it is not the standard.
I hereby announce that if I find anymore pathetic post about lag and such in this thread will be deleted as Fong's post has pointed out (twice now, read that other lag thread that is locked) excatly what has been set in stone and agreed on. There is no argument, just crying so stop it and move on.
I am not afraid to go all power monger mod all over this forum if this continues.
Get back to what this original thread was here for. Lag stuff, take it to the lag thread or move on.
I'm on iPhone so can't respond in full but I just want to say I appreciate the tone and content of your post Cody. _b
I'm Running my ps3 on a Panasonic 37" 100hz.. I've been running fighting games this tv for a 2 years..~~ i found there is no lag time on mine.
before i brought Sony LCD, and samsung... i was having issues timing my combo~ I tried on game mode and Standard (Vivid) and it was pretty Fucked up...
They both were running HDMI...even tried component or VGA.. Some reason my Panasonic fix that lag...I Also Brought 50" Panasonic NeoPDP in my living room recently... It was Perfect... never feel the lag time at all..
I've been playing mvc2 for years.. when it hits at year 2000, Running on a CRT... Awesome! Last time we had mvc2 tournament National last year.. i did feel the difference running a VGA to a Samsung LCD. My Magneto (S.HK Super cancel) cannot perform at all i mastered that S.HK Super Cancel for bloody long time. I am hoping for the national tournament coming.. I am happy to bring a CRT and Dreamcast console... at the mean time i will look at some parts for 2 arcade sticks..
VGA Chords cost $13 on trademe if you guys want to get some.
Also mike, your panasonic probably does lag youll find. What model is it? Cause you can search online and find the exact numbers for it in most cases.
100 % true
likewise here to bro, I've a 32' Panasonic 100mhz and its grand with no lagg issues thru HDMI...tho the X360 shows a hyper speed I'd prefer, but still am satisfied with the 32'Pana100Mhz..
Th-37LZ800 one of the best Model for 37" LCD
and Neo PDP Panasonic Th-P50V10Z..
i dont found it laggy at all.. that bison combo i always do... i can do it up to 99 hits max wif that sisscor kick Focus cancel dash.. in trainning mode.
Quote from: cha on June 30, 2010, 08:24:45 PM
And its for Bill only, I think you're wrong, it takes really long for people to get used to it, at least that's the
case for me. Not to mention its only good when ALL setups you play on are lagfree, if you switch between
the twos or more different delay setups, your SSFIV life would probably be over.
And I'm a psychology undergrad, beat that.
Admittedly, I still have to stick by what i have said on this matter, as i still think its right, but i can totally appreciate where youre coming from with this post, so i have no reason to say anything bad, or argumentative. Need to agree to disagree on this one. :P
And i 100% agree with the statement in bold.
maybe u guys should come ova have a game night.. and see it ur self it lags :)
I work in a Electronic Retail store.. I was searching the best tv to play sf4, i was running a CRT... after work i do like a setup wif my ps3 and run sf4 with every LCD & Plasma range we got... LED fucked up! ~ Panasonic tvs i found r alot better than SONY, LG, and Samsung..
Just talked to giga boss he said he can make the tournament setup available for practice.
He said something along the line of using this cable you'll get no sound normally, he wanna ask Mason about the sound cable thing, how to get it etc, because he said you know better than him, thx
Quote from: cha on June 30, 2010, 11:27:21 PM
Just talked to giga boss he said he can make the tournament setup available for practice.
He said something along the line of using this cable you'll get no sound normally, he wanna ask Mason about the sound cable thing, how to get it etc, because he said you know better than him, thx
finally, something good out of all this nonsense.
Well I found it on trademe while looking around last year. Another alternative is the xbox 360 elite cables which come with it which also fits both an hdmi and component cable thingy at the back. Or else you can rip the cover off your normal component cable thingy and it should fit with an hdmi cable.