This was posted on J Wongs blog today
Stephen Keith Question
I own SF4 for Xbox and PS3. I also have TE sticks for both. I have been playing on Xbox for a very long time (Almost since release) until my Xbox red ringed for the 2nd time. While I work out the process to get it fixed, I picked up SF4 and a stick for PS3. I quickly noticed while redoing trials that there is what seems to be an input lag on the PS3. I was wondering if there is an legitimacy to the claims about the lag. I use an HDMI cable on my PS3 on an HD DLP and have noticed a difference between the two consoles.Any thoughts? P.S. What did you think of the music mix for Marvel at SB4? I thought it was pretty sweet and nostalgic. 90’s jamz FTW haha!
JWonggg Answer
There is input lag timing between the 2. I personally play on xbox and the fact that PS3 lags alot affects my gameplay a bit. I miss combos I usually never miss but you’ll adjust to it sooner or later. The music they used for Marvel is always better than the current soundtrack. I would listen to anything besides the current music.
I always thought it was just in my head but after playing pc and 360 whenevr i play on ps3 I find my links etc harder to do ....
Is there really input lag on the ps3 version ? If so thats kinda crap for you ps3 users
Yeah I saw that too... interesting if true. I can't say I've played much on sf4 ps3 though.
I thought they said there was virtually no difference if you installed it on your ps3?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjdwwf6vaIE
block/poke strings seem noticeably slower on the ps3 too, from my experience
People keep saying the difference is minimal, but personally, I've noticed the difference between PS3, 360 and Arcade. To me it seems like the PS3 is slightly faster, so when I'm doing links on the 360 or Arcade version, they sometimes won't come out because I'm doing stuff too fast. Even stuff like block string cancels are wonky on Arcade but I hit them every time on PS3... Go figure :/
Let's be clear here: input lag isn't the same as game speed.
Input lag means that if you press a button, the action won't occur until a number of frames later. 0 input lag means that when you press the button the move starts on the same frame.
::)
The guy asking the question plays on a DLP tv through a HDMI cable. Thats pretty much the best way to add input lag to your setup. Also there is no mention of what make of stick he is using which can have a huge effect on input lag.
The only way to check if there really is noticeable input lag is to test each console on the exact same sdtv with official pads. You can't compare the yifans retarded resolution setup with your old school 14inch and your mates 50inch plasma running at 1080p.
Actually, in the very first sentence he says he has TE sticks for 360 and PS3, and presumably is clever enough to try both consoles on the same DLP setup, and the one leap of faith I'm making is that he's using HDMI on both.
Quote from: electric on November 02, 2009, 01:31:04 PM
People keep saying the difference is minimal, but personally, I've noticed the difference between PS3, 360 and Arcade. To me it seems like the PS3 is slightly faster, so when I'm doing links on the 360 or Arcade version, they sometimes won't come out because I'm doing stuff too fast. Even stuff like block string cancels are wonky on Arcade but I hit them every time on PS3... Go figure :/
I agree. I found some input lag issues with the Yifans game the other day.
Quote from: fluxcore on November 02, 2009, 05:06:18 PM
Actually, in the very first sentence he says he has TE sticks for 360 and PS3, and presumably is clever enough to try both consoles on the same DLP setup, and the one leap of faith I'm making is that he's using HDMI on both.
>_<
woops didn't read that very well...still the guy is running a very laggy setup for ps3 and does not say that he was using the same for his xbox(he may have had it running thru vga into a computer monitor which would give virtually no lag). He wouldn't be able to test his xbox on the dlp as its borked. Also combo's are rarely affected by input lag. Doing trial mode is definitely not a good way of testing input lag.
I have played three different ports of the game (arcade, ps3 and xbox) on a SD setup and can say that i noticed no difference in input lag. You only have to read this thread here to see that there is little consistency in the claims that people are making.
i wasnt really making anything of what that random guy mentioned about his setup , it was more Justin wongs answer to it ...
JWonggg Answer
There is input lag timing between the 2. I personally play on xbox and the fact that PS3 lags alot affects my gameplay a bit. I miss combos I usually never miss but you’ll adjust to it sooner or later
for him to say it , thats a pretty big call
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 02, 2009, 06:32:51 PM
i wasnt really making anything of what that random guy mentioned about his setup , it was more Justin wongs answer to it ...
JWonggg Answer
There is input lag timing between the 2. I personally play on xbox and the fact that PS3 lags alot affects my gameplay a bit. I miss combos I usually never miss but you’ll adjust to it sooner or later
for him to say it , thats a pretty big call
Yeah I don't wanna start arguing with Wong but we don't know what kind of setups he has been playing on. I've seen him use a hrap2 with converter which might give him some input lag.
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 02, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
God damn and I thought i'd found why I can't link shit ;D
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 02, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
wong isint a link master ... ?
Blasphamy lol
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 02, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
The only one arguing is Ben?
I've also noticed such lag on all 4 versions I've played.
PS3 < Arcade = xbox < PC
I started first playing Arcade when it had shit graphics and I liked that speed, then on Ben's PS3 I found it slight delay....Xbox was somewhere in between teh arcade and PS3.
Now that the arcade has changed it settings I have found it to be similar to PS3, speed wise.
After numerous practice on PC SF4, then going back to August tournament I found that PS3 was teh slowest out of all plateforms. It was very difficult to link to link combo's and such which took me a while to get use to. Xbox on teh other hand felt a lot better when I switch btw the two. But PC version would be the fastest out of all versions.
TBH to me I have to agree with Andy. Although i find yifans to be the slowest version. Biggest thing i notice is when i try to RSF. On 360 i average about 6, but at yifans, i have to slow my reps down to just get 3-4.
Personally I like 360 and arcade the most, I think the PC version is a bit weird. And no, it's not that my pc sucks.
PS3 distant 4th.
This is basically just a 'what things work easiest for me' rating. Oh yeah and PS3 has the worst graphics, lol.
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 02, 2009, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 02, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
wong isint a link master ... ?
Blasphamy lol
ON THIS FORUM... Bro, I just gave you the comprehension damager. Better hope your Raven can stand up to the might of KORRRREEEEAAAAAAAAAAA and Muay Thai. You're lucky Law isn't very Ip Man or else you'd be in real trouble
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 03, 2009, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 02, 2009, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 02, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
wong isint a link master ... ?
Blasphamy lol
ON THIS FORUM... Bro, I just gave you the comprehension damager. Better hope your Raven can stand up to the might of KORRRREEEEAAAAAAAAAAA and Muay Thai. You're lucky Law isn't very Ip Man or else you'd be in real trouble
THE COMPREHENSIONER?
What do you like about school then? ..... LUNCH
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 03, 2009, 01:24:34 PM
What do you like about school then? ..... LUNCH
C'mon pHillipe , kick zee bal like I showed you !!!!!!
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 03, 2009, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 02, 2009, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 02, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
wong isint a link master ... ?
Blasphamy lol
ON THIS FORUM... Bro, I just gave you the comprehension damager. Better hope your Raven can stand up to the might of KORRRREEEEAAAAAAAAAAA and Muay Thai. You're lucky Law isn't very Ip Man or else you'd be in real trouble
Ravens gunna NInja vanish your ass and then your ass be in pain for a week haha :)
thats 0l33t right there
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 03, 2009, 09:21:09 AM
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 02, 2009, 07:43:08 PM
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 02, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
wong isint a link master ... ?
Blasphamy lol
ON THIS FORUM... Bro, I just gave you the comprehension damager.
Quote from: fluxcore on November 02, 2009, 07:45:46 PM
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 02, 2009, 07:30:22 PM
Hmmm... All the link masters on this forum seem to think that there isn't really a difference.....
The only one arguing is Ben?
LOL
I just gave you the betterreadthepostspropperllyologist damager haha
That's cause the other link masters are like .... "We don't care"
And Korea will take your ninja vanish bullshit back to japan you blapanese fool
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 03, 2009, 04:40:33 PM
That's cause the other link masters are like .... "We don't care"
And Korea will take your ninja vanish bullshit back to japan you blapanese fool
JAPAN NEVER BACK DOWN TO KOREA !!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: fluxcore on November 03, 2009, 09:01:33 AM
Oh yeah and PS3 has the worst graphics, lol.
:'( its true
Ugh people are comparing apple's with oranges. If you can't do your combo's it's unlikely that its because of input lag. Timing of combo's does not change with input lag unless you are using some type of visual cue. I'll bring along my sdtv so people can see that there is no input lag.
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 03, 2009, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: Smoofologist on November 03, 2009, 04:40:33 PM
That's cause the other link masters are like .... "We don't care"
And Korea will take your ninja vanish bullshit back to japan you blapanese fool
JAPAN NEVER BACK DOWN TO KOREA !!!!!!!!!!!
You're fucking Wesley Snipes. Know how you got that scar beach? HWO GAVE YOU DA JFSR
That scar was from all the bitches tryna cut off my pants so they can get to my Gigantor black Adder wang and they got over excited .
Epic thread.
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 03, 2009, 04:50:42 PM
That scar was from all the bitches tryna cut off my pants so they can get to my Gigantor black Adder wang and they got over excited .
Hey mang he got that scar from eating pussy mang.
Do you main Hwo Smoof? Fuck that guys seriousy the gayest cunt ever, ever i tell you.
Quote from: Toomeke on November 03, 2009, 04:44:01 PM
Ugh people are comparing apple's with oranges. If you can't do your combo's it's unlikely that its because of input lag. Timing of combo's does not change with input lag unless you are using some type of visual cue. I'll bring along my sdtv so people can see that there is no input lag.
Actually that's not necessarily true. Some people use sound cues to judge timing, some people use animation cues, some people just use their 'feel'. Some of these WOULD be altered by input lag. If the feedback loop from user -> output -> user is longer, all your subsequent actions will be on stale data for a start.
I never said that input lag itself was the cause of my findings, either. I just know that things seem different to me, I have more trouble on ps3.
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 03, 2009, 04:50:42 PM
That scar was from all the bitches tryna cut off my pants so they can get to my Gigantor black Adder wang and they got over excited .
what was your face doing so close to your own crotch ???
Quote from: samurai black on November 03, 2009, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: B1ackstar Ninja on November 03, 2009, 04:50:42 PM
That scar was from all the bitches tryna cut off my pants so they can get to my Gigantor black Adder wang and they got over excited .
what was your face doing so close to your own crotch ???
lol, yeah i'll say.wtf.
Quote from: fluxcore on November 03, 2009, 04:56:09 PM
Actually that's not necessarily true. Some people use sound cues to judge timing, some people use animation cues, some people just use their 'feel'. Some of these WOULD be altered by input lag. If the feedback loop from user -> output -> user is longer, all your subsequent actions will be on stale data for a start.
I never said that input lag itself was the cause of my findings, either. I just know that things seem different to me, I have more trouble on ps3.
Pretty much agree with what your saying. Feel is indeed altered by input lag.
Yeah I realise that you didn't say anything about input lag. I was actually aiming that to everyone else who used input lag as a way to explain why they were having problems.
Hi lads. I think this is my first post. I gotta comment on what Wong is saying.
Input lag has a lot of variables and can actually be a common misunderstanding between the Xbox and the PS3.
To reduce input lag on LCD televisions, there are two main points to cover:
1.) Your TV is running at it's native resolution
2.) You are using VGA to connect your console
The problem with the PS3 is that it does NOT have VGA output capability. Secondly, the PS3 does NOT support forced output resolutions by way of internal scaling. Both of these aspects the Xbox does.
Its important to understand that SFIV outputs at 720p and NOT 1080p which is the common native resolution of most LCD televisions unless of course you're one of those fools who dropped $12k on a "massive LCD tele so I can watch tha footy in the yooge" back in 2003 or some shit.
Anywho. With the Xbox you can satisfy the native resolution requirement by forcing it to output at your TV's native res. You go further by using a VGA lead and not an HDMI or component cable.
The importance of running at your TV's native resolution is because doing so removes your TV's requirement to rescale images to display and instead it is done internally on the console. When LCD TVs rescale images you get input lag. Bad input lag. The post-processing power of LCD TVs for image scaling is pretty piss poor and this is where the bulk of input lag stems from. By having your console perform image post-processing (i.e. resizing SFIV's 720p image to 1080p) your TV doesn't have to bother, hence better response.
The PS3 cannot do this. The Xbox can. Therefore, if setup correctly, the Xbox yields a better and more responsive game on TVs that exhibit large amounts of input lag (around 30ms or more).
The solution for PS3 owners (like me) is to buy a snappy LCD monitor with low input lag (I personally use a 24" BenQ E2400), buy a TV that supports 720p as its native resolution or use a CRT. The expensive alternative is to perhaps use a DVDO Edge upscaling unit, but these typically weigh in at more than the price for your console. They're expensive.
Other stuff:
- There are some VGA leads you can buy for the PS3 to interface with VGA but you still don't jump over the native resolution hurdle so the difference (in terms of input lag on LCD TVs) is minimal
- Yes, the PS3 supports forced output resolutions ala the 360 on *SOME* games. But not all. Sadly SFIV does NOT conform to this.
- Not all people perceive input lag. To people like me, it drives me fucking crazy - even a tiny amount of it. My 42" Samsung TV in my lounge is essentially unused for games now as a result.
- No, I'm not saying the Xbox is 'better' - it just exhibits technical aspects that make it friendlier for reducing input lag - aspects that I feel Sony should have also adopted
- After making the jump from my 42" LCD TV to a 24" BenQ LCD monitor I honestly cannot go back to playing on LCD TVs. They feel terrible. The LCD monitor is that much more responsive. Teching throws for example is way more consistent as is nailing tricky links.
- A lot of this is personal opinion (i.e. the point above) however the technical crap is solid. I've spent a long time dealing with input lag dramas and trying out various odds and ends to reduce it. For more info and technical crap check out the thread we created on SRK here: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=174085
Wow good to have someone really knowledgeable on board.
So all this time I just assumed I should be using HDMI for playing guitar hero. This could explain why I always find some kind of lag on my really fast 20" LCD. If I find a cheap VGA cable, I should try that and see what it's like.
Nice post, pretty sure I've said most of it in various other posts though :)
However I'm very dubious about the mystical VGA cable which fixes all your input lag. Guitar Hero actually runs at a really crusty resolution from what I understand so there'll definitely be some upscaling which is probably where your problem is. I'm sure no cable will fix this.
I tend to agree with flux...
The "VGA fix" is merely an attempt to bypass TV post-processing, which may (or may not) be enabled on some TV's VGA ports
In saying that though, I'd really like to try it on mine to see if theres a difference...
Taking a stab in the dark here, but using a VGA cable would mean that the tv has to do an Analog to digital conversion, where as with a HDMI cable the tv wouldn't? Won't that also create some lag as well?
Quote from: Gino on December 11, 2009, 02:09:02 PM
Taking a stab in the dark here, but using a VGA cable would mean that the tv has to do an Analog to digital conversion, where as with a HDMI cable the tv wouldn't? Won't that also create some lag as well?
i thought this also originally but it appears to be the opposite of that as my understanding goes
A->D is probably less difficult than D->HD, but yeah it'd still be a process...
so in saying, reading from teh above with regards to teh 720p LCD monitors that if you have a 1080 monitor it is not suitable for Ps3?
here is what I got, can anyone full me in with some info?
http://www.provantage.com/asus-vw246h~7ASU90MY.htm
Only if you have a shit monitor.
Try to find a review of it which states the input lag time.
I can tell you the BenQ E2200HD is a great 1080p monitor for gaming, or if you want 24" the E2400HD
Quote from: fluxcore on December 15, 2009, 10:08:00 AM
I can tell you the BenQ E2200HD is a great 1080p monitor for gaming, or if you want 24" the E2400HD
That's good to hear... I was just looking at these earlier this morning. Another good 24" that I know of is this bad boy...
http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=383251
Reviews on this asus-vw246h to Ps3 are really good, I would bringf it to Giga and try it myself.
Quote from: zosla on December 15, 2009, 11:27:53 AM
Reviews on this asus-vw246h to Ps3 are really good, I would bringf it to Giga and try it myself.
From what I'm reading average of 1.5ms input lag (which is very good) but 5% chance of 30ms (2 frames, not good).
No idea how good it is at upscaling, which is what it will have to do from the 720p a ps3 puts out.
My advice to ANYONE considering a monitor would be to try it out first, and PARTICULARLY with whichever devices you are going to use with it. PS3 is probably the most problematic due to the lack of hardware scaling.
do game modes on consumer TV LCD's really reduce input lag? Looking at getting a sony 32 inch LCD (don't want smaller than 32 inch tv because itll be used for movies and tv, etc) with a game mode option but scared i'm still going to be getting input lag. anyone had much experience with that?
If I'm running component 720p with SF4 it shouldn't be that much of an issue if the screen supports it? Since there will be no upscaling, etc?
Quote from: Rorooze on December 15, 2009, 03:23:50 PM
do game modes on consumer TV LCD's really reduce input lag?
The key word is reduce, not eliminate... You'll probably find that although things will be BETTER, they still won't be GOOD... particularly with the PS3, as Flux says
Quote from: Rorooze on December 15, 2009, 03:23:50 PM
If I'm running component 720p with SF4 it shouldn't be that much of an issue if the screen supports it? Since there will be no upscaling, etc?
From my understanding, that's correct as long as the TV (which it more than likely should) supports 720p
Well for some comparison info.
I play on an LCD projector with PS3 so lag likely to be pretty bad (only screen I play on so not much to compare with).
Anyway at some point I will be upgrading to a 1080P LCD projector.
I am looking at the Panasonic AE4000.
It has a gaming mode which I found this about
"Gaming mode options are "Normal" and "Fast." "Normal" will provide normal video processing and results in a frame delay of about 3 frames (assuming Frame Creation is off). "Fast" will eliminate some of the standard video processing overhead and cuts frame delay to about 1.5 frames."
Theoretically yeah, 720p supporting tvs/monitors should be ok. Personally? I'd test it out and read reviews first anyway.