Fighting games are getting worse

[Rorooze]

I don't entirely get what you are saying here.  He is saying that defence is better in Vanilla, as your safe reversal etc has the potential to also net you a ton of damage.  While you still get all the other benefits in later iterations of the game, you can nolonger basically end the round with upeprcut FADC ultra anymore.  Are you saying that you should save the meter to mash out of a string as opposed to using it in that situation?

But he is arguing that the newer games are worse because they make things to easy for casual players, how is a free and safe escape from knockdown pressure with the potential for 40-50% damage not catering to casuals?

[CptMunta]

Hmmmmm.... It's funny, I've only just started hearing the "SF4 is better than Super" argument the last few months by more and more players. But maybe it's just been the specific people I asked the question to.

It's weird because when SF4 was around a year old people were starting to think it was stupid because it was too defensive and you couldn't be creative enough. You miss a one frame link in a block string, get hit by a mashed dragon into FADC Ultra and loose half your life. The dragon was random, the easy inputs made it random etc etc....

And then when SSF4 dropped people thought it was way better because you had all these new offensive characters, you also had new defensive options (Rufus Ultra 2, Abel's Ultra 2) and more life so one missed link didn't cost you a round. But still, I think alot of the core of what was SF4 was winning tournaments. But now months later this is all random since you can screw up more times and you aren't punished for mistakes.

Balance is definitely not AE's focus, he is right where it is definitely been made into a more offensive game. If it makes things more interesting, then awesome. I know alot of the more casual crowd will not be pleased. Like I wasn't when I first heard the changes. Strangely players I've spoken with don't like the changes but think it's a better game lol. Ricky Ortiz said he hates what the did to Rufus' Ultra 2 and that Yun and Yang are cheap, but jokingly said his favorite games are full of cheap characters so he likes it so far.

I personally think the problem (if there is one) is maybe we aren't giving these games enough time to distill into their core tactics. Most games at a high level require alot of focus because people know how to punish you badly and that the game has matured to the point where players aren't given enough room to screw up.

He raises some interesting points though I dunno if I agree with all of them yet. Still early days in my opinion. Definitely a good read and has given me alot to chew on. (Especially since I have personally become a more lazy player since Super  ) Remember how everyone thought 3rd Strike and MvC3 were trash when they came out. I remember people at the local fish n' chips shop not liking Hyper Fighting because the speed made it too "Random"

[maelgrim]

I generally agree with the post/article, I think modern fighters are getting worse.
But my main two reasons are a bit different:
1. Ultras - can't stand them

2. Difficulty of move execution - why do 1 frame links and super crazy button combos have to exist? I imagine the perfect fighter to be where you can pretty much perform any move / combo at will (i.e low difficulty) but the game still has huge depth. So its more about when to do the move not how. I think this would remove a significant entry barrier.

[LN]

I think fiteing games r getting bettar becuze I can play them wit my friends online. it is much better now.

[Gino]

Internet makes fighting games crap

[[NIUE] B1ackstar Ninja]

AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUGETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[amendonz]

shout outs to comeback mechanisms

[LN]

shout outs to comeback mechanisms

yeah i thort fighting games got wurse when super meter came in too

[amendonz]

yeah i think you know thats not what i mean...

[Chocobuny]

James Chen put it pretty well. Wake up ultras might be scrubby and people hate on the game for having a system like that, but why are you getting hit by wake up ultras?

Not directed at anyone here, just thought it was relevant since stuff like ultras is a main complaint in these new fighting games.

[CrazyMobius]

Internet makes fighting games crap

Yeah and this whole thing about screen lag is just ridiculous. Even on home consoles with every game before SF4 this was never an issue.

[Barnstorm]

I disagree with a few of his comments
I think his MvC3 stuff is plain wrong and comparing it to mvc2 even pros said mvc2 was random so i think the two are very similar. You can destroy your opponent with mix ups, you can have big comebacks and rush down is better but keep away is not impossible in both games.

Only real difference was the fact comebacks are made easier with xfactor.

"I don’t know much about mvc2 as a title but I did know you just couldn’t pick up random characters and win against any character. That’s the core problem with fighting games now."

I dont believe characters are really the issue
Mvc2 picking the top tier characters didnt even gaurantee a win, I have beaten many players using high tier characters and destroyed them with low tier.

I think a lot of the issues with fighting games stems from stubborness and pride. People think that they should never lose to someone they deem a scrub.

My only real issue with games like sf4 is the mashed dp through block strings because the attacker has to guess when the opponent is going to mash it out because they might not do it all the time instantly making your attacking game weaker

[Barnstorm]

To play devils advocate just for you Alan

Older street fighter games were too hard and there was a clear difference in ability

1. It was way too defensive and making a come back was nigh impossible because it meant taking bigger risks most likely resulting in more damage lost.

2. There was no variance in characters because if you didnt play ryu or guile you were immediately at a dissadvantage because the tiers had that big of a spread

3. Combos and throws did huge damage so if you made a small mistake you basically lost the match eg refer back to 1

[[NIUE] Optimus DAVE]

This dude sounds like he got beasted by a scrub and wanted to have a cry lol

and this
The entire game is built around who can create a better offense.

is pretty much one of the main things of mvc2 and hes claiming that its a bad thing for mvc3....lol

you have the mad rush downs and resets and gimicks.

and this

How many times are you RANDOMLY caught with an assist and lose because of some random lucky combo they caught you in? How many times do you work sooo hard and do so much work and lose because of X Factor?

as stupid as xfactor is, its apart of the game.

mvc2 had ahvb, rom, O.G SENT, O.G STORM, glitch jugg, msp, scrub.....the list goes on. Heaps of dumb things, but eventually people got used to them and thats what I think is going to happen with mvc3.

Hasnt even been out 6months.

I have to admit that I started to think this game was ass, but then you learn the system and see how far you can push it, it feels awesome.

and if he did play mvc2, he would know that it started off with keep away/LAME/ style teams, which eventually made way for rushdown team.

Its like natural evolution of gameplay or something.

Niggaz just gotta buckle down and put in the effort........

and i hate mash dp through block strings, but that doesnt mean I wont use it.

Its part of the game and thats all there is to it.

To be honest, mvc3 shouldve had arcade release b4 console, but companys be getting soft and actually tryna sell shit instead of making it O.G locc'

I dont think games are getting worse or easier, we've just been playing them for so long that everything just all becomes the same.

qcf+atk = the universal fighting game special move.

then from there you have your qcb, dp motion.....blah blah blah

niggaz hav always been complaining like bitchez.....just now they have a way to tell the whole world as opposed to their own little community


I love fighting games no matter how annoying any mechanic they have is. Gives you a reason to play to get around them...back to the lab

lol at his b.s. about arthur.....i show dat fool some arthur tricks boiiiiii

[CrazyMobius]

Just read it now. I think his premise is completely backwards.

Vanilla was MUCH more scrub friendly BECAUSE of the fact that you could not afford as many mistakes. In Super over the course of a round a better player is expected have have made less mistakes and so should have higher vital because of this. And the one thing SF4 needed was offensive gameplay. I knew this, the community knew this, Capcom knew this. So why didn't this guy catch on? Maybe nobody remembered the amount of people that used Jump Backwards heavy kick, land fireball repeat. Tatsu out when they get close. This was a viable option for scrubs. In Super it became less of an option and in AE they removed the Tatsu escape.

The whole POINT of the first SF4 was to attract newcomers. And then slowly make the game more balanced over time.
So yeah I totally disagree with what he's saying.

Didn't read the part about Marvel.