HD TV input delay info.

[fluxcore]

Due to a bunch of crap flying around at the moment, I think I need to put some real information up about "lag" related to LCD/HDTVs, so here are a few links.

General info + results of many hd tvs
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464

More specific lcd monitor reviews and info, often including input lag
http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?s=0a279e87ee5a4ba9a411859d95fe47ef&f=78

SRK discussion
http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=174085

Basically, TN lcd panels tend to offer less input delay (in the order of 0-1 frames), however they have shitty colours and viewing angles, and also can't be made in large sizes. Therefore larger panels tend to have more problems than smaller panels since they use a different technology (IPA). Some companies give more of a crap about input delay than others, however it can differ from model to model, so you really have to check out specific model info.

I'm not going to give any specific recommendations, since they need to change all the time.

[B BOY DRAW2]

Faaark...that's a lot of info to read!!!

I think I'll put my opinion, knowledge, understanding...love it or hate it...here...

Game mode only changes your contrast settings!!!
Companies say that it'll do all this other stuff e.g. summarized...process your games faster, therefore making your game look smoother.
But it won't...it can't.

LCD's are generally 50-60htz...more and more are becoming 100htz...and a few 200htz LCD's have come out.
Real basically this refers to how many frames a second the t.v. can handle displaying.

Plasma's default at 100htz and can be switched down to 50htz.
Because of high frames per second..if you go into 80-90 percent of sports bars/cafe's they will generally have Plasma panels and not LCD panels...for sports of course 

At the end of the day it's personal preference which you like more...but there are pros and cons for both.

e.g. Plasmas have glass on the front..LCD more of a matte or non-reflective finish. therefore...any natural light coming in a room on your Plasma panel is going to glare like a mofo!!! LCD...only a little bit better in this situation.

e.g. LCD life is unknown...that shit can fail (dead pixels)...or last forever. todays Plasmas have a life of around 10-15 years based around 8-10 hours of use a day. because Plasmas have gas in them...it is slowly depleting with use.
That said...LCD will generally last longer...but based on the Plasma life span...you'll probably want the "next" technology before 10-15 years is up.

With all the Htz and frame speeds of t.v....I believe that PS3 and 360 both default to 50-60Htz for gaming though?
Can someone correct me if I'm wrong though...t.v. I know...consoles...I'm not so sure of.

Beware the term LED t.v....I'm not saying the t.v. is bad...just be aware that the screen is not LED.
The screen is still an LCD screen...just the back light is LED.
and again this can get confusing. Sony and Samsung did have a LED back lit model each...but the current LED backlit models are actually LED backlights in the frame of the t.v.
Nice t.v....crazy thin...deep blacks...good motion...energy efficient ...and LED's are meant to last stupid long times!!!
expensive though. and when you weigh up the options of how long a t.v. will last and how rapid technology is changing...
well...it's all about the bling factor in my opinion when it comes to LED backlit panels.

We can talk about cables and justify why and why not...but I think I've ranted on long enough.
I'll close with my set-up.

37" HD ready Panasonic Plasma
(all current Plasma's are 42" minimum...Panasonic made the only 37" and stopped making it a year and a half ago)
XBOX360 Elite
(HDMI is where it's at...nothing better than a crisp, clean, clear digital signal!!!)
Denon AVR-689 home theatre Amp with a 2channel setup
2 X Klipsch SNF2 standing front speakers.

If my t.v. had to be replaced...I'd get another Panasonic Plasma no question!!!

Peace,
D

P.S. Salsa Doritos are the bomb!!!

[fluxcore]

Game mode CAN rectify the input delay problem, but in some implementations it doesn't. Basically it skips stages of image processing.

[B BOY DRAW2]

Yeah...I reckon you can notice it if you pause a side by side comparison in particular places...and if you were to do it again...the results may show...but in different patterns or places on the screen...
I reckon you gotta be pretty fussy though.

Game mode CAN rectify the input delay problem, but without all the testing equipment...you CAN'T notice all the differences and changes with the naked eye.

[CptMunta]

I just scored a Samsung LA32A550 32" LCD TV for $650 from trade me a few weeks back. Loving it!

I'm running my PS3 through HDMI2 port label PC in Game mode which I've heard conflicting reports that it cuts down the lagg heaps. Some say it only works on XBox since the Xbox outputs at 1080 and the PS3 outputs at 720p which the tv upscales causing lagg. Some say that this model recognizes the signal as a PC signal and runs sweet as.

But how much lagg? Not that much as far as I can tell. Be good to know how much lagg is added from upscaling 720p to 1080p through the HDMI port.

The difference between Game mode and the default mode is noticeable for SF4. Other games I just run in in another HDMI jack with the settings all pimped up.

[fluxcore]

It's definitely true that there are more problems with PS3s due to the lack of hardware upscaling (well.. at least in the vertical direction). So any TV with a less than stellar upscaler will have PS3s perform poorly, and 360s perform fine.

[CptMunta]

It's definitely true that there are more problems with PS3s due to the lack of hardware upscaling (well.. at least in the vertical direction). So any TV with a less than stellar upscaler will have PS3s perform poorly, and 360s perform fine.

Yeah, it makes me wonder if this is the majority of the problem of the PS3's version of sf4 timing feeling slower. It's just not being played on a monitor with a 720p native resolution. Even most monitors would have to upscale right? Some ps3 titles upscale the game with software on the disc.  It would be great if someone mentioned this to capcom, some people with 1080p screens that don't support 720p were stuck playing the game in 720i ew! or even 480p gross!

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Cable question.

360. VGA lag vs Component lag vs HDMI lag.

How does it all compare? I understand VGA is the better of the 3, so i just bought one off trademe for like $12. Its probably a shitty indian cable or some shit, but if it lets me learn to RSF when theres no lag ill use it. (apparently i can only do it through lag, though it might just be that i didnt have time to adjust)

If, because its potentially a shit cable, the picture quality suffers, and i want to go back to my component, would it be worth my while to shell out extra cash for a GOOD VGA? How big is the lag difference between a good VGA and the standard component cable?

[fluxcore]

There is NO LAG related to cables. It's entirely dependent on the TV. With 360 you SHOULD be fine with HDMI if your tv doesn't suck, since the tv won't have to upscale anything (the 360 puts out 1080p). Do some research on your tv and see if there are any input lag stats on it with various modes.

HDMI will always look better.

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Ahhhh. Cheers dude. Might donate my $12 VGA to giga then.

[electric]

The reason why the VGA port (nothing to do with the cable, like flux said) usually has no lag, is because most TV manufacturers disable all the post processing stuff on it. So in most cases, VGA will be better than HDMI, as there won't be any picture tidy up going on

[Barnstorm]

There is NO LAG related to cables. It's entirely dependent on the TV. With 360 you SHOULD be fine with HDMI if your tv doesn't suck, since the tv won't have to upscale anything (the 360 puts out 1080p). Do some research on your tv and see if there are any input lag stats on it with various modes.

HDMI will always look better.

HDMI looked worse on mine

[fluxcore]

Than VGA? Ok something is wrong with your TV

[B BOY DRAW2]

Than VGA? Ok something is wrong with your TV

Hard!!! HDMI shits on everything!!!

[Barnstorm]

Than VGA? Ok something is wrong with your TV

both VGA and component mine only runs at 720 though

when i use HDMI it has a grid of dots shown all over the dark parts of the screen about 1cm X 1cm
i was always using component and decided to upgrade only to find out it looked worse on my screen