Low Tiers

[Lennysaurus]

I'm a low tier warrior with Abel

He's so crap it makes me sad I just can't bring myself to play anyone else because he's a big ass french menace

FRENCH!

Id hardly call him crap bro.  I really like abel... just i cant use him well.

Where is he in the tier list?

[[NIUE] B1ackstar Ninja]

lenny I DEMAND a rematch!

I DEMAND a rematch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[electric]

I'm a low tier warrior with Abel

He's so crap it makes me sad I just can't bring myself to play anyone else because he's a big ass french menace

FRENCH!

Id hardly call him crap bro.  I really like abel... just i cant use him well.

Where is he in the tier list?

Damn near the bottom

He really is crap... All his normals are slow, his EX moves are nothing to write home about, his mixup game is pretty limited... the only real thing he has going for him is a damaging Ultra

I really like him too, hence why I've stuck with him since day one, but he's really a mixed bag... If you read the Abel forums at SRK you'll see how emo most of the Abels really are lol

[Lennysaurus]

I'm a low tier warrior with Abel

He's so crap it makes me sad I just can't bring myself to play anyone else because he's a big ass french menace

FRENCH!

Id hardly call him crap bro.  I really like abel... just i cant use him well.

Where is he in the tier list?

Damn near the bottom

He really is crap... All his normals are slow, his EX moves are nothing to write home about, his mixup game is pretty limited... the only real thing he has going for him is a damaging Ultra

I really like him too, hence why I've stuck with him since day one, but he's really a mixed bag... If you read the Abel forums at SRK you'll see how emo most of the Abels really are lol

I guess so.  But you can read every forum, and every character discussion is emo, that isnt concerning the top 5.  Didn't realise he was so low.

Im not sure that I agree about the mixup though.  He has loads to mixup from I reckon.

Youre still ver good with him though.  Looking forward to seeing how you go in the tourney tbh.

[[NIUE]iRONSoL]

Honda for this next tourney !

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Ill be playing El Fuerte Dave.

Finally scraped a win against andy's Ryu today. Although i think he was going easy. At least im improving. Being able to RSF makes a big difference. Strangely enough, i can do it on the mung side of the machine. >_>

I might pull sagat out if im getting reamed though.

what are your setups for rsf dude?  I do the regular, run fake focus stuff.  Also started using EX run to blow through pokes into it.  Another setup I have now is ono thier wake up, walk right next to them and do forward guacamole.  Youll land on the other side and staart RSF.

Im finding more and more that I use it less and less.  Ive also noticed that except in very tight circumstances Im only using 2 to 3 feirces, as it is difficult to get them to the point where I can do 4 or 5.

Im learning to be alot more patient with him too.  Playing him a bit more like rolento I guess... hit and run, as opposed to rushing down.

That guac setup sounds interesting. Something i can play with. I mostly try to use it to punish shit at the moment, and i think thats best where its used. I find after a tortilla is the perfect opportunity to charge a lvl3 focus. If you dash and then start charging, the focus will hit the as theyre getting up Its hardly safe, but surprisingly useful.

And yea, the first 3 are the easiest to connect, and i generally end up sliding after the 3rd, but ill go for more if im relatively sure im going to hit with them. I can sit there in training mode and land 5-6 pretty consistently on most characters. 8 is my record. The ninth eludes me at this point. But training mode and an actual match are completely different situations. Sadly, because im terrible at the basics, i lose maybe 75% of my (decent) matches.

Its a shame he doesnt have any other real damage options either. If they upped his other damage a bit it would push him well up the tier list, and he wouldnt be broken. He loses to the fundamentals, and i can work my ass off, and do maybe half of what the rest of the cast can do in a standard combo off of a jump in or a c.mk poke. I just like him because when i DO win, it feels much more satisfying than with other characters. Fuck hes crap, but fuck hes fun at the same time.

[electric]

I guess so.  But you can read every forum, and every character discussion is emo, that isnt concerning the top 5.  Didn't realise he was so low.

Yeah true... I guess anyone who's sole strategy is based on guessing is always going to be a bit flaky...

Im not sure that I agree about the mixup though.  He has loads to mixup from I reckon.

Youre still ver good with him though.  Looking forward to seeing how you go in the tourney tbh.

I think he tends to play well in shorter amounts of time... If you know the Abel match well, then theres not really a lot you can do that isn't really unsafe on block or a gamble... backdash and neutral jump is basically the game plan to destroy Abel lol...

[Gino]

lenny I DEMAND a rematch!

I DEMAND a rematch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE Yell that during xlan!

[CptMunta]

Abel low whaaaaa??!!!!

Abel's solid as, solid mid tier I reckon. Did you not watch the last major US tourney?

Abel plays really differently than the traditional SF characters, but so does Rufus, Viper and Fuerte. His mind games are crazy. Also crossup MK Cr HP Ultra.   I dunno, maybe you feel like your bottlenecking with him and are running out of options, I get like that with Rose sometimes. You know Abel better than me (I might sound like I'm talking out of my ass) but compared to other characters I think Abel is pretty capable.

The only people that should be whinging should be fuerte, Guile and Rose players   But we really need to suck it up too. As I said in a previous thread:

I'm not for that whole "all the characters are good, there are no tiers" all the characters are capable some are just alot more capable than others.

I think it's easy to suffer from tier envy when you see your character listed at the bottom. Sigh when you beat a Sagat scrub and then see the cursor race to Zangief. The bonus is less people know your characters match ups, the mind games and what's in your bag of tricks.

Low tier fury!

[electric]

Yeah, I don't buy in too much to the whole tier thing, but some of the matchups are just plain old mean

Zangief vs. Abel is a pain in the ass... Tier lists have it as 7-3 and I couldn't agree more... hell -- I'd even say it was 8-2... I think the only matches that Abel goes even or better against are the some of the low stamina characters and that's about it.

I think Abel is only really "seen" as solid because he's quite niche... Watch any of the Shiro/AC Revenger/Kenpippi videos on YouTube (3 best Abels in Japan) and you'll see how hard they have to work to earn their wins... Also, crossup mk, cr.fp only hits on some characters some of the time

Maybe I'm just complaining because I can't seem to work any of his pokes very well into my game... the fact that his fastest low/mid hitting move is 5 frames hurts too... being poked out of everything is a bitch

I agree that he's all about the mind games though... Mind games + 270 damage without ex as a punisher are really great tools... But I'd definitely say he's far from solid

[CptMunta]

Yeah, I don't buy in too much to the whole tier thing, but some of the matchups are just plain old mean

Zangief vs. Abel is a pain in the ass... Tier lists have it as 7-3 and I couldn't agree more... hell -- I'd even say it was 8-2... I think the only matches that Abel goes even or better against are the some of the low stamina characters and that's about it.

I think Abel is only really "seen" as solid because he's quite niche... Watch any of the Shiro/AC Revenger/Kenpippi videos on YouTube (3 best Abels in Japan) and you'll see how hard they have to work to earn their wins... Also, crossup mk, cr.fp only hits on some characters some of the time

Maybe I'm just complaining because I can't seem to work any of his pokes very well into my game... the fact that his fastest low/mid hitting move is 5 frames hurts too... being poked out of everything is a bitch

I agree that he's all about the mind games though... Mind games + 270 damage without ex as a punisher are really great tools... But I'd definitely say he's far from solid

That's weird Rose vs Gief is not too bad for me, but it takes AGES.

Maybe it's an intermediate level thing,  A good Abel owns your average shoto and Sagat but once the skill gap closes it's harder to get in, outpoke and outpunish.

But isn't fun making people make mistakes, or people thinking they are safe till you get in? Someone thinking they've gonna kill you with a chip damage FB only you're just close enough to Ultra through it? Or coming back from nothing with some random ass shit?

We should get some games in 

[zos'la]

lol...
Maybe try playing Simonfish Abel and then think about what you guys say... seriously its NOT the characters problem, its you.

tier or not the character is only as efftive as its player control.

[electric]

I know I'm not exactly the most solid player around, but it's not just me

Guys like BustaBust and HAV are well aware of Abels shortcomings. These are probably the two most consistent Abel's in the States right now, short of Justin Wong (Who TBH, would probably rape anyone free with any character)

Being zoned out all day is no fun for any character, but when you're playing a rush down character like Abel and you don't have ANY tools to play any other way, it does start to hurt. Like I said earlier, maybe it's just me over-reacting a little, and he really isn't that bad, but getting in is a huge problem against most characters, much like the Rufus/Ryu fight

[zos'la]

I wont comment on ur comparision btw us and the other players around the globe but I can tell that experience comes into play with a lot of ur  questions and as mentioned b4 it comes to the player themselves, char may make it easier in some situations but u are the most important factor.

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

I wont comment on ur comparision btw us and the other players around the globe but I can tell that experience comes into play with a lot of ur  questions and as mentioned b4 it comes to the player themselves, char may make it easier in some situations but u are the most important factor.

Yes, experience is the biggest factor, but strength of the character plays a MUCH bigger part than you seem to be getting at. You play ryu and gief (who are both high tier. 2nd and 3rd best iirc) and chun, who is mid/high. Once you get the game at home, and you start using lower tier characters, I guarantee your opinion on this will change. It is MUCH harder to win with lower tier stuff, and you're kidding yourself if you think it isn't.