Quote from: [PF]CrazyMobius on November 03, 2010, 07:41:24 PM
Yeah probably should stop doing that at the national tournament.
Yeah, not a good look.
Quote from: [PF]Hydrokinetic on November 03, 2010, 07:56:36 PM
Yeah, not a good look.
It was pretty effective in the end on unwary opponents.
I thought i had that match down. Played heaps of abels, also had some casuals with simonfish before the nats and went 2-0. (Someone better not think i'm salty i will kill you).
But when he pull that out in tournament match i got mindfucked as. You don't really have to know much about it either. Except start it and be able to cancel it, which simonfish knew. It ended up working well to his advantage. I ben using it and getting heaps of cunts jumping back and shit lmfao, feels good to be on the other end this time haha.
I dont find giving advice is a problem? he asked, I answered.
Quote from: zosla on November 04, 2010, 08:55:51 AM
I dont find giving advice is a problem? he asked, I answered.
You should know better than that by now Andy.
Quote from: [NIUE] BIRRY WONG on November 04, 2010, 08:57:53 AM
You should know better than that by now Andy.
Haha i'm so fuckin confused right now.
Anyway, does anyone have a spare $100? I wanna WEAR DIFFERENT COSTUMES IN SSF4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: [PF]Hydrokinetic on November 03, 2010, 07:56:36 PM
Yeah, not a good look.
Why? I heard you and Simon standing around giving each other matchup advice during the day as were a lot of other people. How is it different?
I actually thought we had a rule about not coaching DURING a match, but I couldn't find it.
Was it a rule or just frowned upon? I cant remember.
Never a rule, just people saying they thought it was/wasn't fair. tbh you should be assuming your opponent knows all this shit anyway and expecting to be punished for that unsafe shit.
I think what is being said is that you shouldn't be coaching someone during the set. Talking about matchups and stuff after or before a match is different.
TBH I am undecided on it.
The problem I personally had was that it meant that you werent playing to your opponents strengths/weaknesses. If youre doing something that he cant adapt to, then you deserve the win. If someone is sitting there telling them how to counter it and giving them a play-by-play free ride, then the COACH deserves the win, not the player.
Its pretty bullshit tbh. Yes you should be prepared for the other person knowing how to beat whatever it is youre doing, but if theyre NOT prepared for it, you should be able to counter this flaw in their playstyle. Why should a weaker player be given an advantage? Because hes weaker and needs a handicap? Fuck off. This is a tournament. If I was in the bathroom, Kevin wouldnt be allowed to play in my place. Why the hell should someone ELSE be allowed to dictate a match between two other people?
Ultimately though, I am of the personal opinion that people need to earn their wins. If someone is sitting there saying. "Do this now. Wait...wait...DO THIS NOW" then the player isnt going to learn shit. He's gonna get the win, but its ultimately useless for actually helping him improve.
I realise its a pretty petty argument. And realistically if the player needs live coaching, most of the time the better player will still probably win anyway. Not only that, there are too many valid points on both sides of the argument. I could type out a fucking novel arguing from both perspectives. This whole post has had most of it deleted because i was just talking in circles trying to address potential rebuttals to what i was trying to say (as is commonplace in my posts). Fact is, its better off left as just being 'frowned upon' since its a massive shitstorm of back and forth arguing that is so open that it quite simply will NEVER END.
Unnecessary semi-off topic rant over.
I don't really care tbh.
I guess just frowned upon would be the way.
I'm just salty on ssf4 costumes. Wish someone would join my saltyness in this situation :-[
First of all I want to clarify for you bill.
You can't really couch during the match, the players CAN"T hear what u say because they are too focused on the match anyways, espcecially during a tournament.
What I did was after the game, I would say, watch out for stuff like blah blah, use ur ultra!!!! or keep calm ....plain and simple.
This they already know, its just giving them some ..confidence I shall put it as.
On the other hand, don't u think if a player can adapt to the gameplay and teachings within a macth deserve to win? because they are supperior if they can do it... I personally can't. :)
But if i was to be a dick, I'll just talk in another language that none of you would understand right? yeah.
oh this is what I am looking for,
Quote from: Oleetworth on November 04, 2010, 10:31:58 AM
Never a rule, just people saying they thought it was/wasn't fair. tbh you should be assuming your opponent knows all this shit anyway and expecting to be punished for that unsafe shit.
stupid example would be like people/fans watching Daigo playing Mago.
Mago using Fei U2 and has Ultra meter build up, they would shout DON"T JUMP IN AND ATK he has Ultra !!!!
Doh no fuckign shit, obvious but this is some player/ fan trying coach someone who knows it anyway? does that make Daigo less superior? no it doesn't, does it mean Daigo is not prepared? never.
meh /rant :)
I actually have no problem with it. It's no different to Boxing/Kick Boxing, Netball, Basketball, table tennis or numerous other "sports" or competitve events where they have coaches. They have coaches in Boxing that can watch from outside the action and give the boxer feedback/instructions. Just like a boxing coach telling a boxer that the opponent drops their guard with their left hand every time they go for a right cross is no different to someone saying player "x" does a wakeup dragon after every knockdown (yes I know that is OBVIOUS it's just an example). Look at when the U.S top players play Daigo or another Japanese player they all swarm in to give advice between rounds at some events.
If you can convince someone into being your "coach" then good on you as far as I'm concerned.
fuck back throw into ultra is awesome.
This is the thing.
Andy's Right. Graham's Right. Smoof's Right. Weazzy's Right. I'm Right. Richard's mum is Right.
NOBODY IS WRONG. I dont like it personally. Most people dont care. Its a really really minor issue. If people like me want to frown upon it, then its fine. If you dont think it matters, its fine. If you dont know what anyone is talking about at all, then its fine.
NOTHING MATTERS AND EVERYTHING IS OK.
There is only one thing that bothers me.
Quote from: zosla on November 04, 2010, 11:36:13 AM
On the other hand, don't u think if a player can adapt to the gameplay and teachings within a macth deserve to win? because they are supperior if they can do it... I personally can't. :)
This is EXACTLY WHAT IM SAYING. They deserve to win if THEY adapt. Of course they do. I only dont think they really deserve it if someone ELSE tells them how to play.
Its a legitimate win either way, which is why theres no reason to 'ban' it. But if i want to frown at people who do it, then I will.
Its like Simon using Abel ultra 2. Everyone was saying "OMG CHEAP blah blah" but the fact of the matter is, he still won his matches totally legitimately. Weazzy understands this perfectly, which is why he isnt salty about his matches with simon. Its a similar principle. Some people dont like it. Too bad. Its fine.
Im not trying to stir shit, im just saying, I dont like it. Its still fine. Its still legal. It doesnt 'break' the game. On paper there isnt much wrong with it. Some people just dont like it. Plain and simple.
You don't fuck with Daigo when he got 2 ex.
You shoulda know!
Quote from: [NIUE] BIRRY WONG on November 04, 2010, 11:55:25 AM
Goddammit i just posted in the other topic.
Lol i've done that before. You gotta check mane. It's the damn recent posts reply and quote is close to the other topics lol.
Quote from: geneterror on November 04, 2010, 10:05:30 AM
Why? I heard you and Simon standing around giving each other matchup advice during the day as were a lot of other people. How is it different?
it's been answered before but what we discussed was not actually during one of our matches. There's a difference.
If I can hear people giving advice to my opponent, all good! I will be like ninja and adapt and switch up my play accordingly... or carry on doing what I'm doing to prove that their tactics wont work. For reals.
If I cant understand them... meh. Im a ninja.
I guess it's just something that needs to be clarified in the next tourney rules. Seems people had different ideas about it.
I think the rules are actually fairly clear...
Quote from: fluxcore on November 04, 2010, 10:08:42 PM
I think the rules are actually fairly clear...
Lol! I thought you said you couldn't find it in the rules.
Yes. I think that makes it pretty clear.
Is this a windup?
It means there is no such rule, shout all you want and be the next Justin Wong or something.
Is that what it means? Jeez riddle fucking masters.
Anyhow it seems the organizers were under a different impression at the time of the tourney. But good to see it's all cleared up now.
Which organisers? Were they ever asked?
Jesus, what have I done...
Quote from: fluxcore on November 05, 2010, 11:24:27 AM
Which organisers? Were they ever asked?
I think you'll find a certain Hippo Stage, Robot Suit loving individual who shall remain nameless was asked explicitly.
Asshats? I think not.
Its frowned upon. Its not a rule, but people who do it should feel bad for doing it.
THATS ALL.
If they want to do it, they're allowed to.
Quote from: [NIUE] BIRRY WONG on November 05, 2010, 01:00:59 PM
Its frowned upon. Its not a rule, but people who do it should feel bad for doing it.
THATS ALL.
If they want to do it, they're allowed to.
Feel bad? Is that the only cost? That's a fairly small price to pay.
Yea. It is. But its not a bad enough offense to do anything else about it. The player is still 'playing'. Its not like a better player rocked up, grabbed the stick and won the match for him.
I don't like it either, but thats just how it is. Its like soft-banning a character. Like A2 Chun. People can still use her, but theyre fucking dicks if they do.
Ingame coaching makes me sad. For instance I might decide to pick Hakan against someone for the element of surprise. And then just as I'm about to do my special U1 or U2 setup their friend tells them exactly what I'm doing and how to counter it. Not fair imo, but you guys do what you want I guess...
Also I don't mind teammates in a 3v3 or 2v2 telling eachother what to do in the game. Does that make me a hypocrite?
In game coaching is gay. Between rounds coaching is gay.
Between game coaching is boss. Between match coaching is boss.
Quote from: electric on November 05, 2010, 01:46:07 PM
Between game coaching is boss. Between match coaching is boss.
I vote this :) and thats exactly what I did :) does that mean I should feel bad for being a dick or am I boss? :P
Quote from: zosla on November 05, 2010, 01:51:25 PM
I vote this :) and thats exactly what I did :) does that mean I should feel bad for being a dick or am I boss? :P
If this is true Andy then you've missed the point of the entire conversation. We weren't talking about giving advice between games. And we never have been.
nope I know exactly what this is :P just want to see what peoples opinions are with regards to such actions during tournament :)
Quote from: massi4h on November 05, 2010, 01:40:44 PM
Ingame coaching makes me sad. For instance I might decide to pick Hakan against someone for the element of surprise. And then just as I'm about to do my special U1 or U2 setup their friend tells them exactly what I'm doing and how to counter it. Not fair imo, but you guys do what you want I guess...
Also I don't mind teammates in a 3v3 or 2v2 telling eachother what to do in the game. Does that make me a hypocrite?
Personally I think coaching in a 1v1 game is pretty shit house, probably shouldn't be allowed at a tournament with cash prizes. I don't have a problem with it in a team tournament at all. That said, my views on coaching probably come from playing FPS games, where coaching is huge in team games but not allowed in 1v1 or 2v2 games.
what if someone screams out ULTRA and then i ultra and then all this good shit happens
Quote from: samurai black on November 05, 2010, 04:31:03 PM
what if someone screams out ULTRA and then i ultra and then all this good shit happens
This is why we cant ban it. Imagine if someone did that and you had to forfeit your win.
Quote from: zosla on November 05, 2010, 03:25:09 PM
nope I know exactly what this is :P just want to see what peoples opinions are with regards to such actions during tournament :)
Ill take your word for it, but i have my doubts.
Anyway, if i havent made myself clear enough already, ill resummarise (is that even a word?) AGAIN for the rest of you:
This discussion is only about coaching DURING A GAME. During a tournament, it is exceptionally bad form, and really, you shouldnt be doing it. Plain and simple. BUT, it is not a bannable offense, so if someone WANTS to flush their credibility down the crapper in order to scrape out a win, then they are perfectly entitled to do that. Just expect everyone to shun you from society and make your life generally miserable afterwards.
It's okay Fong's small enough to fit in my pocket anyways.
I'm just wondering, in the SoCal Regionals with BLG Filipino Champ versus Daigo, was BLG Filipino Champ getting advice from Ricky Ortiz during the match? I couldn't tell as the stream quality was completely shit for me and was sitting on my bed a fair ways back. But I did see him walk off a couple of times to consult. Is this frowned upon in such major tournaments in America?
If this isn't within the boundaries of the topic discussion, apologies. I just didn't want to make a whole new topic just for this and get retarded out for being uninformed on the scene over there.
In regards to something zosla said earlier in the thread about reminders after a match or round. When I was playing Tekken 6 in Palmerston North like a crack addict it wasn't unusual for somebody to step in and point out some obvious tips to help balance somebody out. I see a lot of players who get way over-worked and lose their rhythm because they think they are unable to beat the opponents tactics, when a lot of the time it's that they've lost their nerve or something.
What I'm trying to say is, I don't know if it helps most people but if somebody gives me a quick jolt it's helped me on more than one occasion to get back in to a fight.
I'm not sure on the whole advice during a fight. I've never had it happen, but I think it would be distracting more than anything else for me.
Naww niggas do this shit all the time.
Quote from: Squares on November 17, 2010, 02:23:42 PM
I'm not sure on the whole advice during a fight. I've never had it happen, but I think it would be distracting more than anything else for me.
Its true, works both ways.
Yeah but squares your tekken example is not in a serious tournament match. We encourage people to help eachother and give advice during non-tournament games.