New Zealand Fighting Game Forum

Vortex = a string of mixups basically.

Akuma/Fuerte/Ibuki probably have the best mixup game off of a knockdown, which in essence is where the term came from.

The reason it is called a vortex is because if you get hit by one mixup/knockdown, then it leads to another, and then another etc. Like a vortex.

Its just mixups. Every character has mixups. Its only called a vortex because of how those characters use the mixups, and some retard decided vortex was a scary word. Its a stupid term imo. And im not sure which dark anal cavern that skull pulled that 'true vortex' bullshit from, but its one i will try to avoid. Whilst raping him.

Almost forgot, add Chun to the list of "True vortex" characters, her DF HK has vortex like properties when used ambiguously on wake.

Yo lenny. Id be keen for one of those USB things if you still have some.

Hook:  Yeah no worries man.  Since you have a weirdo Mac PC, Ive got a capture device that just saves a replay directly to a USB and then you put on your PC to upload etc.  You may borrow it in exchange for granting me sexual pleasure.

Karrizma: yah man I can lend it to you.  Remind me to bring it on Friday.

Rumble:  Honestly I think you play that match pretty well except a couple of things:

At about 4 minutes you put Jack into the corner, but I think you make some risky decisions about continuing your pressure given akuma's options to escape.  Particularly considering that you had the life lead (albeit only a small one).  At one piont you do a knee bazooka, and another point you jump in, and I think you would have been better off positioning youself just outside of his cr. roundhouse and holding him in place with booms.  That way you get to hold him in the corner for very little risk and punish any options he has to try and escape (eg: teleport).  You go for a crossup short by the looks of it which he escapes and puts you in the corner.  I don't think Guile should ever cross someone up in the corner, as none of his combo options lead to enough damage or mixup options afterwards to be worth losing the corner advantage.

At about 2:50ish you have a small life lead and 1 stock.  You have nice full screen postioning.  You and jack trade a couple of fireballs/sonics.  I think here you have a positional advantage, but you give it away by back jumping and forward jumping.  When you back jump you seem to just be giving jack ground for no reason which he capitilizes on with akumas insane walk speed, and then when you forward jump one of the fireballs you end up in a bad position where jack can possibly get knockdown again and start to vortex you.  As a result you end up in his dangerous cr. roundhouse range and he gets to apply pressure which ultimately forces you into the corner.  I think that this is the point that jack gets momentum and almost wins the round.  This happens again at about 4:17.  To me it seems like as long as Jack is prepared to just throw fireballs, that eventually you will back yourself to the corner, or bring yourself to him.  I don't know what it is you can do against this with guile, but i think maybe some neutral jumps over fireballs?  Maybe dash cancel from fullscreen through one?  Or even back so that you can boom straight after and then walk forward to hold your ground?  Obviously due to guiles style, he can inevitably forced further back, but I think that the key is to slow stall the process as much as possible.

I think that you get really lucky alot too with your throws after jack misses crossup hurricane/divekick as well.  In theory you shouldn't be pressing throw then cause you'll get knocked down and vortexed.  Examples of this at 1:58,  3:18, 4:12, 5:14, 5:20
At 3:08 I think what jack is going for actually worked.  Can you shed any light on what was happening here jack?

At 4:28 it looks like you are mashing cr. tech.  I think you should work on late OS cr.tech cause its waaaaaaaay better.  I think this is also why you miss a couple of techs earlier in the set, cause you are pushing the tech too early and are getting cr.short come out instead of the tech.

At about 4:30 jack puts you in the corner.  He starts using blockstrings, and I think he catches onto the fact that you are going to push buttons everytime he leaves a gap in his attack strings.  For example, he does a string into 2 cr.jabs then you do 2 cr.shorts, then he does st.roundhouse and you jab him out immediately afterwards, he catches onto this and frametraps you with a cr.strong into cr.roundhouse.  Even though you are cornered here you have ultra, and a decent life lead.  I don't think you should have been as flustered at this point for a couple of reasons.  You could have just blocked and late teched any obvious throw attempts, and if you had just blocked the frame trap you could have pushed him out with boom and then worked your way out of the corner.  Instead he gets a sweep and gets an opportunity to start gay vortex.  Secondly, you had just under 2 stocks.  If you had flash kicked you would have created the extra meter needed to give you the second stock and then been able to FADC the flash kick to give you plenty of room to get out of the corner.  I think that this is a big turning point in the set for 2 reasons.  The first is that you're taking a really unecessary risk given how low his life is, since it should be him having to make the risky decisions to come back from the life defecit.  Secondly, it seems that this sets the tone for your mindset for the rest of the set as you seem to be playing very flustered from this point on, he frame traps you the next rounds, and almost every frame trap he attempts pays off(examples at 5:03, 6:07, 7:49).  You go on to win the round anyway, but meh food for thought, maybe just be aware that people are gonna go for the frame trap once they catch on to what you are doing, and just block them out.

I think guiles cr.roundhouse is shit.  You use it at 6:35 and almost get thrown for it, and you use it again at 8:09.  I guess don't use it ever is my advice lol. 

Um, wall of text.  Hope that helps a little.

If i miss a crossup tatsus or divekick, its definitely punishable with a mashed throw which is good. What i did in 3.08 tho was a purposely whiffed demon palm into block string. If i mistime the flip or distance with your wakeup then you can throw me out of it sometimes. But if i do it right, you can only flash kick out of it, or block.

What Leo said what right, shouldn't really press many buttons against Akumas who catch on, especially when they have meter to cancel dp through block string interruptions.

Well this vid is a bit outdated, Rumble smashes my Akuma now 

Sweet. Detailed stuff like this is what I was looking for guys and why I thought this thread would be a great idea. You can only give a small fraction of advice in person reflecting on a game at ranbats compared to this.

I've said it before somewhere one these forums, but I am a bit of a tech masher. Its something I'm trying to really tone down. To be honest, I dont really play many people that tend to use frame traps and stuff. I can only name a handful. In that sense, I get into this groove where I just do it without thinking, like my mind goes on auto-pilot. I've got to stop that. One frame trap on me should be enough for me to wake up to what I've been doing without thinking.

Regarding the my corner pressure, you're right Lenny. There was no need for me to jump in on him. I should have just kept my spacing and continued chucking booms. I dont know why I do it but I do that alot if I'm trying to be aggressive with Guile. Jump crossup lk. Got to stop that as well.

Those jump backs were stupid yeah. Neutral jump is good but you lose your boom charge. I think I was just jumping back at the wrong times. The idea is that I jump back and can boom on landing then bazooka knee and boom again while retaining some ground.

As for the vortex. My only problem nowadays is the demon flip throw. Jack, you've conditioned me to keep blocking all this time now all im eating are those throws lol. A bit of that probably comes down to knowing the player imo.

Thanks alot guys for all the advice. Good shit!

Quote from: JackSmash on October 10, 2010, 12:15:28 PM
Well this vid is a bit outdated, Rumble smashes my Akuma now 

Lol yeah right Jack!

Quote from: IR U IM B IL E on October 10, 2010, 03:40:00 PM
You can only give a small fraction of advice in person reflecting on a game at ranbats compared to this.

I guess at ranbats it's easier to point out big mistakes that newer players straight after a game, which helps them get out of the noob stage but after that finding things they can improve on gets difficult so in that respect video analysis does make sense.

I know someone (Alan?) mentioned we should record some game from ranbats for the NZism youtube channel. I'll bring a camera this Friday coming and we'll record the finals and some other games and post them here for some feedback.

oh!!!!
I didnt see this thread :X

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bfEzzHgmEM

Discuss bitches!!!

I touch myself while looking at Andy's facebook profile and listening to Miley Cyrus.

Push too many buttons, get raped many times. Once he gets in it looks like you're just trying to push a button to get out =/ looks like you panic heeeaps at low h peez too.

Quote from: [NIUE] BIRRY WONG on October 15, 2010, 08:35:46 AM
I touch myself while looking at Andy's facebook profile and listening to Miley Cyrus.

now ur scaring me Billy wang... ><

@ Lenny...
Well I might not be in a position to comment on how u play sim as I am not expert in any way...

Just a few things from my perspective.
1: first round, ur doing too much pokes hence getting lariet... Also u shouldn've chosen U2...And once he had u in the corner u got mind fucked LOL.

2: round 2...U did a good job keeping him at distance and thats how u should've played but again u got knocked down\ mind fucked again, but that is just kevin being a godly Gief as well. Not much U could do after a knockdown... he does too much optin select, u can't teleport and think ur safe...Just dont let him knock u down
I think the only way u could win is to keep him at a distance as long as posible and keep baiting that lariet with empty jump teleports punish with U2 when available. Oh and get out of the corner if U can LOL.....
yeh... watch for the Standing heavy kick into pummel, lariet, Ultra

Not much help i guess as I am sure u know all these^^

Yeah Ultra 2 is the way to go vs Gief imo. That'll stop him from jumping in so much and force him to stay grounded, making it easier for you to do what you do best - zoning the hell out of him which you did really well in game 2. U2 should also make him wary of doing lariats in anticipation of your jumping normals (like when you were in the corner jumping back).

So yeah. Ultra 2.

Thats all I can say for now. I'm on my break and wanna eat! But yeah awesome zoning. Looks like you need to get used to the pressure when Gief knocks you down. I'll try give a lil more when i get home.

Dunno if that helps.

Yeah man you played the match awesome except when he got you into a corner which is really all gief can do to sim. I think when getting close to the corner try to IAT out as much as you can. Afaik even you IAT next to him and he gets an air reset, another teleport will get you out. Or even sometimes do the normal wake up teleport if you have to and try take a hit and get out. But yeah Lenny that game was really well played, you weren't that predictable with your pokes, though some standing shorts can always be good. Don't think lariat would hit it and it recovers fast.

I wouldn't say I'm 100% sure on U2 against gief though. I guess it's another way to beat long range jump ins. And it's not gonna really help you out of the corner that well. At least U1 if a kind of fuck off move when you're getting near the corner and will beat a slightly mistimed jump in. You already know that jumping hk beats lariat, though kevin did catch on and start using far roundhouse to beat it. So maybe U2 lol.