Pre-release Super Street Fighter IV details

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

I'll bet anyone that Dudley wont be the best in ssfiv.

He is looking top tier at the moment imo. When i say dudley isnt going to be any less bullshit than vanilla sagat, i also think there is going to be plenty more bullshit from the rest of the cast for everyone to look forward to. I personally reckon there will be multiple characters on that level this time around, as opposed to SF4 Sagat sitting up there by himself. Akuma for instance is STILL going to be awesome i'd wager.  Dudley being 'number 1' is up in the air. But im picking top 3. And i dont think the tier gap is going to be quite as significant this time around. (Though it wasn't TERRIBLE in vanilla)

Though realistically, i get where youre coming from. Dudley will probably have more definitive bad matchups than say, Akuma. Dhalsim in theory should give dud's a real hard time. Even balrog, or anyone with a really strong ground/poke game. (But we've had this conversation before) I'll actually be really interested to see how dudley is going to deal with characters with this type of game.

Keeping him out is going to be what clinches a dudley match, but hey, the same can be said for gief, and look at how most of us perform against Kevin. (Though thats more the player than the character)

Sagat is looking like he's a step below now. By no means a 'low tier' character, but even as it stands now, sagat can very easily be on the back foot. He's not a terribly difficult opponent to get momentum on. But with his health pool, and his quick and effective damage output, it doesnt matter. He loses a big chunk of both of these in super, so im skeptical as to whether or not he is still going to be top 3 in SSF4. He keeps his awesome fireball game though, so who knows.

There are going to be some awesome 'oh shit, this character is pretty good' moments as the first few months go by. But ultimately I think dudley is going to be up there somewhere at the top of the list. He has too much awesome stuff to not be up there. Granted, this assumes the game is going to be less turtley but hey, its all speculation anyway for the time being.


Oh, and heres the link. Note that most of the vids are on the youtube pages listed in the first paragraph.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/content.php?r=488-Super-Street-Fighter-4-Video-Explosion


What i mean about Dudley is evident in the DeeJay vs Dudley match on that page. The DeeJay player was better, and countered dudley really well, (And given that duds actually LOST, this is kind of a dumb example) but dudley looks like he can scrub it up, luck out on something, and score retarded loldamage, in a similar way to Sagat currently. Its not quite as bad, and i genuinely dont think any of that sort of crap is as bad this time around, but i just find it kind of ominous that he has that, as well as his myriad of options anyway.

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Aaaaand the more i watch, the more i start agreeing slightly more with Ben, and regretting my massive spiel.

Fuck you Ben.

Cunt.

[massi4h]

I am actually seeing Akuma as top tier. Just have to see if he will get legit ultra 2 setups I'll just use it and laugh constantly. Dudley does look pretty scary though. Ryu is nerfed hard along with Sagat. So Akuma/Dudley/Hakan for top 3?

[HoneyBadger]

... Nerf Bison's damage? CAUSE IT WAS SO GOOD IN SF4. HEY LOOK WE BUFFED SOME OF THE MOVES YOU USE AFTER A CRUMPLE NIKKA

[samurai black]

told you psycho crusher was good 

[electric]

Despite what s-kill said about buffing everyone, it seems as though most of the SSF4 changes we've heard about so far have been nerfs... It seems as though the they're trying to draw matches out even longer now by taking away most of the damaging options that exist in SF4... most (if not all) Ultra 1's have had damage reductions, dragon punch moves have all been nerfed (Cammy's spikes went from 120, 140, 150, 160 damage to 100 across the board ?!?!) and even some normals have been given a slight tweak... Granted, damage isn't necessarily the deciding factor as to how effective a move is... these could all be coming with hitbox tweaks, quicker startup, longer active frames etc... but from first impressions it's not looking so good.

The buffs that I HAVE seen (Fuerte, Abel, Rose air grabs) seem to me that they've just bumped up damage (or on Roses' case, the ability to juggle off reflect FADC) to get around the fact that they were shit house in the first place... when has a GRAB ever traded in SF ? :/

Regardless... I want this fucking game.

[fluxcore]

Yup. If less damage + no speedup is true, then this is going to be one slow, boring game.

[iMagneto]

told you psycho crusher was good 

Ex psycho Crusher very good ~ they didnt test out the damage of EX headstop

[Gamogo]

I am actually seeing Akuma as top tier. Just have to see if he will get legit ultra 2 setups I'll just use it and laugh constantly. Dudley does look pretty scary though. Ryu is nerfed hard along with Sagat. So Akuma/Dudley/Hakan for top 3?

Naw dude, Ryu isn't that badly nerfed. I think people are jumping to foregone conclusions concerning his changes. He'll remain extremely versatile and solid.

[[NIUE] BIRRY WONG]

Despite what s-kill said about buffing everyone, it seems as though most of the SSF4 changes we've heard about so far have been nerfs... It seems as though the they're trying to draw matches out even longer now by taking away most of the damaging options that exist in SF4... most (if not all) Ultra 1's have had damage reductions, dragon punch moves have all been nerfed (Cammy's spikes went from 120, 140, 150, 160 damage to 100 across the board ?!?!) and even some normals have been given a slight tweak... Granted, damage isn't necessarily the deciding factor as to how effective a move is... these could all be coming with hitbox tweaks, quicker startup, longer active frames etc... but from first impressions it's not looking so good.

The buffs that I HAVE seen (Fuerte, Abel, Rose air grabs) seem to me that they've just bumped up damage (or on Roses' case, the ability to juggle off reflect FADC) to get around the fact that they were shit house in the first place... when has a GRAB ever traded in SF ? :/

Regardless... I want this fucking game.

Its easier to notice the negatives than the positives. Plus people who are playtesting it are currently attempting to play SF4 under the restrictions of SSF4. Theyre not trying to find new links/combos/opportunities, theyre trying to do the old stuff. And when that doesnt work, they get all WTF about it.

Gen is a prime example. No more MK -> hands, but apparently he has a lot more links etc. Have we seen anyone attempt to learn all of these yet? No. So the verdict is that Gen got a massive nerf, but realistically, he hasnt ACTUALLY been explored in SSF4 yet.

Thats what im hoping.

As for slow and boring, It looks like they have nerfed a lot of the bullshit defensive stuff. (DP's, ultras) Meaning we're going to see a lot more aggression. Aggression in a game is NOT boring. And look at all the new characters as well. ALL have awesome pressure/offense save maybe deejay. But he has pretty crap AA by the looks of it, so even he is going to need to actually advance to win.

Thats what im hoping.

Naw dude, Ryu isn't that badly nerfed. I think people are jumping to foregone conclusions concerning his changes. He'll remain extremely versatile and solid.

Agree.

[Gamogo]

Yup. If less damage + no speedup is true, then this is going to be one slow, boring game.

I'm thinking (hoping?) the reduction in damage actually coaxes people to attack more.

IV by nature is quite a stand-offish game and many attacks and Ultra setups are quite damaging and more than enough to net a significant life lead. If damage on the whole in Super is reduced people are going to be motivated to actually get in and start treating it like, you know, a fighting game.

I know for example that people aren't going to be scared shitless of Saggot anymore, so there's a match-up that will now see people actually engage the bastard rather than cowering on the edges of the screen afraid to eat so much as one fs.hk from the guy.

I guess we need to wait and see. Lots of match videos seen so far seem to reflect an overall more aggressive play-style than IV which I really hope is the norm. I appreciate the general tactical and cautious approach of IV, but at the same time I prefer it when players get stuck in and really start breaking faces. Capcom wanted Super to be more aggressive and I'm hoping that design mentality pans out - at the very least it'll make these spectator lobbies all the more entertaining.

[Lennysaurus]

I dunno.  I think that everything looks pretty fine.  Dudley is gonna sit there and have his face poked in alot i think.  I think he looks good, solid even, but there are still plenty of flaws in his game and I think that he faces the same problems he had in SF3, but they will be far more apparent in SSF4 due to the system.  Dudley reminds me alot of of Rog, but whereas rog has stronger defensive footsies, dudley has more option on mixup up close, otherwise I think they both face similar issues.

Personally at this point I think Cody is stronger than Dudley.  Good zoning Tools, Good hit-confirmable combos, and it looks like his EX Tornado has invincibility on it so providing its fast enough it should be able to get him out of trouble in  a similar fashion to how EX uppercuts are used to get out of pressure.  Oh and you can see him using EX Convict Kick in their as well which looks as though it could be useful for escaping wake up crossup attempts and the like to reset spacing.

Also, the ryu and sagat nerfs are fine.  WHen you actually look at the stuff that got nerfed on those 2 characters, aside from the damage, the only stuff that was taken away wasscrubby shit anyway that good players never use, or shit that is more dependant on luck than actually outperforming an opponent (eg: nerfed dp for mashing during blockstring, trade ultra changes, redonculous damage after being on the end of a hiding for half the round).

I think that Chun's new Ultra looks really usefful for her atm tbh.  Small damage, but she can confirm it very easily.

Adon looks like he will bore me to sleep lol.  I can see someone with a very dry playstyle picking him up and doing well with him.  I'm now a bit uncertain with guy as he doesnt look at all like he will play like his alpha counterpart enough for my tastes.  Hakan looked interesting I guess.

I wanna see some more Sim and some Dan stuff atm.

[fluxcore]

So you guys don't think people will still be mashing dp during blockstrings? And getting lucky and still comboing shit into ultras?

...

Just because it doesn't do as much damage doesn't mean they won't do it. It'll just mean you have the longass ultra animation you have to sit through for even LESS reason.

As for the 'sit back and tactical' thing, I love samsho and that is pretty much the pinnacle of "hah he did a punishable attack, 50% damage for me!" -> sitting back and doing nothing. The game is designed for that. I think SF doesn't work like that at all, and also I think they'll have to do more than just tone down damage to entice people to be aggressive like we were able to be in the old days. Shit, everything in HF did tons of damage and no-one played that like a snorefest.

[Lennysaurus]

So you guys don't think people will still be mashing dp during blockstrings? And getting lucky and still comboing shit into ultras?

My understanding is that they nerfed the priority on heavy upper cut which resulted in it tradingwith ground pokes alot.  Their are people that tried it out on SRK saying that it was alot harder to do.

At least for Ryu anyway.  I'm guessing that Ken can probably still do it... Dunno about sagat.  What I was more eluding to was that at least now with the nerfed ultra damage when stupid shit like this happens to you, you wont sufffer quite so badly from it.

I agree that toned down damage will not make the game more offenxive however, but I think that now there are some characters that can afford to be more offensive due to thier movesets etc.  TBH I think its gonna be kinda 50/50 or something close to that.

[fluxcore]

And MP dp?